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and only being able to act one is not really an issue when you can just turn pieces in the back one by one and not move anything into danger until you can kill their pieces, or just auto win init and then move that piece back to safety.
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Deaths_Baine wrote:here are some of the issues i see with booming voice. --Death Becomes Them-- 23 Mon Mothma 21 Admiral Yularen 20 Captain Panaka of Theed 20 Padawan Commander 16 Queen Amidala 9 R2-D2, Astromech Droid 8 Mas Amedda 50 Naboo Trooper x10 4 Rodian Diplomat 8 Spaarti Clone Trooper Demolitionist x2 21 Naboo Soldier x7]
cool now i start the game with over what....90 points that never has to leave my starting zone... have fun collecting 200 points on me when almost HALF never has to leave the first 4 squares of the map heck if i include amidala it is actually over 100 points that never has to move from the start position.
27 Admiral Daala 16 Admiral Gilad Pellaeon 16 Security Officer Stormtrooper 14 Imperial Officer 14 Stormtrooper on Repulsor Sled 65 Elite Scout Trooper x5 11 Captain Needa 8 Mas Amedda 8 R7 Astromech Droid 15 Imperial Dignitary x3 3 Mouse Droid 3 Ugnaught Demolitionist
76 points that never has to leave starting area.
That means that almost half of your squad is camping out in the back, and you're leaving the other half out there to face 3/4 of someone else's squad. It may be hard to collect 200 points, but it will be difficult for 100 points to beat 150 points. And if anything gets past the frontlines... well, commanders aren't known for their combat prowess. And for the record, has anyone ever seen Yularen fight? Or Mon Mothma? Pellaeon? Needa? Daala even? I don't know a lot about the EU characters, but non of them strike me as frontline commanders. (I reserve the right to be completely wrong about Pellaeon and Daala - had never heard of them before SWM ). And like Countrydude said, many commanders just weren't designed to be on the frontlines. I think making all CE's range 6 would nerf many commanders to the point of being unplayable. Mon Mothma especially would be the easiest 23 points your opponent ever scord. I think if there is a problem with out-activation, there are better solutions (like no 2-point pieces) than going after Booming Voice and Rangeless CE's.
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CorellianComedian wrote:Deaths_Baine wrote:here are some of the issues i see with booming voice. --Death Becomes Them-- 23 Mon Mothma 21 Admiral Yularen 20 Captain Panaka of Theed 20 Padawan Commander 16 Queen Amidala 9 R2-D2, Astromech Droid 8 Mas Amedda 50 Naboo Trooper x10 4 Rodian Diplomat 8 Spaarti Clone Trooper Demolitionist x2 21 Naboo Soldier x7]
cool now i start the game with over what....90 points that never has to leave my starting zone... have fun collecting 200 points on me when almost HALF never has to leave the first 4 squares of the map heck if i include amidala it is actually over 100 points that never has to move from the start position.
27 Admiral Daala 16 Admiral Gilad Pellaeon 16 Security Officer Stormtrooper 14 Imperial Officer 14 Stormtrooper on Repulsor Sled 65 Elite Scout Trooper x5 11 Captain Needa 8 Mas Amedda 8 R7 Astromech Droid 15 Imperial Dignitary x3 3 Mouse Droid 3 Ugnaught Demolitionist
76 points that never has to leave starting area.
That means that almost half of your squad is camping out in the back, and you're leaving the other half out there to face 3/4 of someone else's squad. It may be hard to collect 200 points, but it will be difficult for 100 points to beat 150 points. And if anything gets past the frontlines... well, commanders aren't known for their combat prowess. And for the record, has anyone ever seen Yularen fight? Or Mon Mothma? Pellaeon? Needa? Daala even? I don't know a lot about the EU characters, but non of them strike me as frontline commanders. (I reserve the right to be completely wrong about Pellaeon and Daala - had never heard of them before SWM ). And like Countrydude said, many commanders just weren't designed to be on the frontlines. I think making all CE's range 6 would nerf many commanders to the point of being unplayable. Mon Mothma especially would be the easiest 23 points your opponent ever scord. I think if there is a problem with out-activation, there are better solutions (like no 2-point pieces) than going after Booming Voice and Rangeless CE's. except you have mouse droids to relay their commander effects, and yep those 100 points are great against 150 because the other 100 points allow them to attack back, twice, for high damage, and good attack. so now you have half your squad in the back and the other half gets to attack me back each time for what near... 70 damage or something... lets see 10 base, deceptive, so 20, opportunist, 30 and +10 on the first from mon, and twin, so yep 70 damage for killing a 5 point piece, but when 100 points is in the back what choice do i have? for the record, has anyone seen mon mothma allow someone to make an attack when they die? ----how dare you plunge your lightsaber through my heart, good thing mon is here to allow me to shoot you in face twice before i die......
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Deaths_Baine wrote:except you have mouse droids to relay their commander effects, and yep those 100 points are great against 150 because the other 100 points allow them to attack back, twice, for high damage, and good attack. so now you have half your squad in the back and the other half gets to attack me back each time for what near... 70 damage or something... lets see 10 base, deceptive, so 20, opportunist, 30 and +10 on the first from mon, and twin, so yep 70 damage for killing a 5 point piece, but when 100 points is in the back what choice do i have? for the record, has anyone seen mon mothma allow someone to make an attack when they die? ----how dare you plunge your lightsaber through my heart, good thing mon is here to allow me to shoot you in face twice before i die...... You cannot compare all game mechanics to real life any how (or Movies in this instance) i mean swap has no place in realism, but most people do not have a problem with that. Here is the THing with your Example though. Mas realy isnt the issue. Panaka is. Either through his granting of twin, or the Rapport.
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countrydude82487 wrote:You cannot compare all game mechanics to real life any how (or Movies in this instance) i mean swap has no place in realism, but most people do not have a problem with that.
Here is the THing with your Example though. Mas realy isnt the issue. Panaka is. Either through his granting of twin, or the Rapport. As some one who's personal NPE is naboo, I do not agree with that statement. The issue, IMO, is the trooper. Pilots were good, but not over powered. Soldiers are only good for combining fire and getting through mouse walls. The trooper took this squad where it didn't need to go.
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countrydude82487 wrote:Deaths_Baine wrote:except you have mouse droids to relay their commander effects, and yep those 100 points are great against 150 because the other 100 points allow them to attack back, twice, for high damage, and good attack. so now you have half your squad in the back and the other half gets to attack me back each time for what near... 70 damage or something... lets see 10 base, deceptive, so 20, opportunist, 30 and +10 on the first from mon, and twin, so yep 70 damage for killing a 5 point piece, but when 100 points is in the back what choice do i have? for the record, has anyone seen mon mothma allow someone to make an attack when they die? ----how dare you plunge your lightsaber through my heart, good thing mon is here to allow me to shoot you in face twice before i die...... You cannot compare all game mechanics to real life any how (or Movies in this instance) i mean swap has no place in realism, but most people do not have a problem with that. Here is the THing with your Example though. Mas realy isnt the issue. Panaka is. Either through his granting of twin, or the Rapport. Maybe he is but making,his commander effect within six squares and no booming would,at least give me the ability to kill your,mice and stop them from getting his commander effect altogether
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atmsalad wrote:countrydude82487 wrote:You cannot compare all game mechanics to real life any how (or Movies in this instance) i mean swap has no place in realism, but most people do not have a problem with that.
Here is the THing with your Example though. Mas realy isnt the issue. Panaka is. Either through his granting of twin, or the Rapport. As some one who's personal NPE is naboo, I do not agree with that statement. The issue, IMO, is the trooper. Pilots were good, but not over powered. Soldiers are only good for combining fire and getting through mouse walls. The trooper took this squad where it didn't need to go. That is also true. The Troopers are probably a bit too cheap. Most likely 9 would be good, to balance them.
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I actually think Troopers and Pilots are costed pretty well in relation to each other; I think the meta just suits Troopers far more than Pilots at the moment. If the meta was dominated by beatsticks, Pilots would arguably be stronger as their attack gets up to +15 when Bravado and Opportunist both kick in. The most troublesome thing about the Troopers themselves is the 30 hit points - should be 10 or 20.
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Deaths_Baine wrote:for the record, has anyone seen mon mothma allow someone to make an attack when they die? ----how dare you plunge your lightsaber through my heart, good thing mon is here to allow me to shoot you in face twice before i die...... Touché Still, Mas is one of the few competitive pieces from the early sets. Let's have respect for his long tenure and leave him alone
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Deaths_Baine wrote: yeah and honestly I would like to see how many three point wins are necessary, and after swiss no one gives a CRAP about 3 point wins because it doesn't matter anymore at that point.
I think you need at least two or three 3-point wins if you want to be in the finals. So far this season I’ve played in 4 regionals. All of my wins (but one) have been 3pt wins and all of my losses (but two) have been 1pt losses. “I’ve had two byes” I try to finish every game and get as many points possible. I do it even when I should be playing for the 2pt. For instance, against slow-players or certain squads (Nabboo deathshots) playing for the 2 is probably your best option. But, I suck when it comes to playing for 2s. I can only think about destroying my opponent and how many points I’m going to get. I never put much thought into the points I am giving up or worry about my points lead. I have the mentality of an impatient fast-player. However, at every regional I’ve watched players calculate points and slow-play when they should have just been playing for the 3. They play every game to edge out their opponent on points. When they win they get 2 points but when they lose they get a big fat 0. The players who are stuck in the mentality of a slow-player and they will not see the top tables. At the end of Swiss fast-players with 1pt losses screw over the slow-play guys with 2s. To reach and play at he top tables you need to know both fast-play and slow-play tactics. Then after Swiss judges may force additional rounds “games are supposed to go at least 5 rounds” if slow-play has been an issue.
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TheHutts wrote:I actually think Troopers and Pilots are costed pretty well in relation to each other; I think the meta just suits Troopers far more than Pilots at the moment. If the meta was dominated by beatsticks, Pilots would arguably be stronger as their attack gets up to +15 when Bravado and Opportunist both kick in. The most troublesome thing about the Troopers themselves is the 30 hit points - should be 10 or 20. Or the fact that they have deceptive. The only difference from base stats between the trooper and pilot is the atk. They both recieve a damage boost, but the trooper receives the damage boost much more often. The over all potential attack is a big deal, but fails in comparison to just combining fire with your 8 extra troopers/soldiers. IMO
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atmsalad wrote:TheHutts wrote:I actually think Troopers and Pilots are costed pretty well in relation to each other; I think the meta just suits Troopers far more than Pilots at the moment. If the meta was dominated by beatsticks, Pilots would arguably be stronger as their attack gets up to +15 when Bravado and Opportunist both kick in. The most troublesome thing about the Troopers themselves is the 30 hit points - should be 10 or 20. Or the fact that they have deceptive. The only difference from base stats between the trooper and pilot is the atk. They both recieve a damage boost, but the trooper receives the damage boost much more often. The over all potential attack is a big deal, but fails in comparison to just combining fire with your 8 extra troopers/soldiers. IMO Rolling Cleave is your friend lol no death shot
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atmsalad wrote:Or the fact that they have deceptive. The only difference from base stats between the trooper and pilot is the atk. They both recieve a damage boost, but the trooper receives the damage boost much more often. The over all potential attack is a big deal, but fails in comparison to just combining fire with your 8 extra troopers/soldiers. IMO Sure - deceptive is probably OTT as well. You can't combine fire on the death shots though. I just like playing Pilots way more - it's more fun as you're aggressive and trying to base stuff. Playing Troopers feels much more reactive and defensive.
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countrydude82487 wrote:You cannot compare all game mechanics to real life any how (or Movies in this instance) i mean swap has no place in realism, but most people do not have a problem with that. While I agree that a literal translation of a character in a movie or story to the gameboard is the best in terms of enjoyment and playability, sometimes attributes have to be abstracted. In this case Thrawn was a brilliant and unpredictable strategist, and through most of the three novels he was featured in he had the New Republic on its heels and reactionary. I think Master Tactician does a good job of translating this to the game. As far as the swap mechanic, his opponents often didn't know where he'd strike next. How do you abstract that? I think the swap comes pretty close to hitting the mark there. Ysalimiri was pretty important to the story line early, so all in all the first Thrawn we saw in the game was a pretty good representation. The second one with opportunist has been the more popular and powerful game choice, but I never saw the Thrawn in the trilogy as an opportunist piece, but rather granting cunning attack would have been more in keeping with the character.
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Darth_Jim wrote:While I agree that a literal translation of a character in a movie or story to the gameboard is the best in terms of enjoyment and playability, sometimes attributes have to be abstracted. In this case Thrawn was a brilliant and unpredictable strategist, and through most of the three novels he was featured in he had the New Republic on its heels and reactionary. I think Master Tactician does a good job of translating this to the game. As far as the swap mechanic, his opponents often didn't know where he'd strike next. How do you abstract that? I think the swap comes pretty close to hitting the mark there. Ysalimiri was pretty important to the story line early, so all in all the first Thrawn we saw in the game was a pretty good representation. The second one with opportunist has been the more popular and powerful game choice, but I never saw the Thrawn in the trilogy as an opportunist piece, but rather granting cunning attack would have been more in keeping with the character. Some would consider thrawn to be one of the most politically opportunistic characters in the EU. It would not be easy for a non human to reach the rank of grand admiral. I am sure it took plenty of cunning as well as being opportunistic. Some books have even alluded that thrawn may have gotten himself exiled from the chiss in order to "team" up with palpatine in order to better protect the chiss. Does that all take cunning, or is knowing how to take advantage of opportunities when they arise. I do not have an aswer, personally.
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Thrawn was not politically opportunistic; he was just so good at his job that he was able to ascend the ranks despite being non-human. If you've ever played the game TIE Fighter, a good chunk of the campaigns are you serving under Thrawn as he goes from Vice Admiral to Grand Admiral.
The reason he grants opportunist is tied to why he has Master Tactician. Because he can learn everything about his opponent's strategic mind simply by studying art, he knows exactly how they'll react in a situation, thus giving him the ability to easily force his opponent into a position for a coup de gras and the victory.
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At Darkdraculs insistence we shall move the initiative talks over here. thereisnotry wrote:I would like to see this. NTMTO on a jedi tank (perhaps in the OR, who don't have strong init help) would be good. An init-control nerf that targets non-uniques would be cool too.
I'm not entirely sure that init control is what nerfs tanks the most, but it certainly is part of the puzzle. I don't think the MTB is the main issue. It is the 110 hit point rock-scissors high-bred. Bryan and I talked about this after the michigan regional where I played Durge on speeder. There aren't any melee pieces that can do 120 damage on the move. More over, there are few that can even reach him. Melee can even compete with grevious and snipers, and they to run off an MTB engine. IMO, Durge is the issue, not the MTB.
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