Thanks for utilising a thread to discuss these kinds of topics, Jen'ari.

that way, we can keep things distinct - a mini comment area for the mini itself,
and the forums for discussion of stuff, as per the standing rules. Awesome stuff.
That way, it'll also hopefully get more folks to venture from lurker-mode into 'i'll have a chat' mode too,
which'll hopefully lead to some awesome ideas.

You raise some very interesting perspectives, Jen'ari.
It mightn't be in a manner which many can agree with the way in which you're raising the observations;
yet,
it is difficult to disagree with where it is you arrive -
even if the way there, was roundabout or too direct hehe .
maybe, it is the style/format of communication, which is leading to some folks misunderstanding what it is you're striving to convey -
and perhaps folks misunderstand some of the communication as 'invective' or 'malady'...

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That said;
I can empathise with the observation "I 'know' star wars, and I know it when I see's it" - too true,
and in so many things, it is that 'I Don't Know What" about a thing, but you know it when you see it.
an aesthetic, a 'vibe', a certain something, you just know.

I'm just another fan, and not at all into 'officially unofficial officialness' which is contrary to
Roland Barthes 'The Author is Dead"
Magritte "Ceci n'est une pipe' etc... so,
feel free to take this con-crit feedback with the appropriate amount of salt

Star Wars is whatever you'd like it to be...
SWMinis's an out-of-production boardgame at this point, from the 'Legends-Continuity" -- before the dark times, before Disney...
so, SWMinis is doing pretty well for a 'dead' game hehe;
yet, folks oughta feel free to make their own custom miniatures or statcards - and I thoroughly encourage any and all to partake in the making of custom miniatures - it is a very rewarding aspect to the hobby that all people can enjoy, and which only require some practice
I strongly encourage you, Jen'ari, to make some customs, by way of example for what you'd like to see

With that preamble aside -
there's a lot of stuff, the more versions of characters, the better.
SWMinis, it has to be said, and as others more eloquent than I on multiple occasions have reflected
SWMinis is not SWRPG (SAGA or otherwise),
SWMinis is not D&D, Yugioh, Heroclix, Magic The Gathering, GW W40K, or even the SWTCG or Decipher Card Games -
SWMinis is if anything, closer to chess -
it's supposed to be a simple-ish, Star Wars-esque board game for a few friends to play - with a strategic |emphasis strategy, not esoteric rules and squad builder with n'th degree metasquad stuff... or a main player base that is "TKO"/"Min-Maxer" and "Win at all costs" for all modes of the game|
Those other elements that more enjoy the churn of Magic The Gathering, ultra-competitive deckbuildin, min-maxin, that sorta TKO thing, and seek to turn what's left of other things into that, they're 'breakin' away' and doing their own thing - and it's awesome to see all the different styles of Star Wars Minis being formed.
As long as there's still Dynamic Duos, Tile Wars, 250, 300 and 500+ mega games, I'm happy hehe.

So,
should the minis stat card reflect more than just one 'moment in time'?
should the 'epic' versions of characters - the fanbeing variants where everybody's favorite characters are effectively a 1-being army...
should that be a new norm? If each mini is 'the ultimate version', wouldn't that lead to power creep (and a hedonistic treadmill/vicious circle of continual change?)
should the idea that each mini represents a version of a character from a particular moment in time, continue?

There's only so much that can fit on a stat card of a particular format hehe
yet, maybe some innovations can happen, and new abilities etc be brought in...
the VSET team have begun making a few new abilities, and it will hopefully make melee focused squads fun,
and resolve a lot of the 'hobson's choice/autoinclude if you want to survive" pieces which were making the game not fun for a lot of folks.
Gotta give credit where credit's due - these volunteer VSET makers are making awesome stuff, they are listening to folks,
and they're putting in the effort mostly on each piece.

it's just... the larger the game is, and the more pieces there are...
the more min-maxers have to play with, to find that tier 1 gold uber A+ ultra "I Win" squad.
So, designers are disincentivised from taking risks and making new experimental things in the 'officially unofficial' VSET scene
and, it becomes catch 22 - do all of the minis wind up being cookie-cutter, or do people take a chance and make a variant of mini...
the VSET team clearly agonises for a long time and thinks about that - as the new transparency and fora suggest -
there's a lot more inputs from more people as to playtesting (which it has to be said, even using combinatorial methods to game squads, the amount of combinations for squad building is fairly large, which makes testing a tougher thing the more pieces are made hehehe)

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Yeah, I wish some characters had've had more 'flavorful' abilities,
like, every character with a lightsaber oughta auto have lightsaber block, lightsaber defense and a lightsaber style hehehe
But, that is what it is... and pieces like the VSET Yaddle help to make those older figures a fun-to-play thing again.
but... I'm not obliged to game with those variants of characters, and at some point, a different variant or errata comes along

Enter "make your own characters yourself" and the wonderful world that is, customs!
I have to declare a bias - I love making customs, and seeing all the cool custom stats and miniatures that people from all around the world take the trouble to make - so, of course, I'd like to see even more folks making even more minis and stats!
Don't like the way other variants of stuff has been made? Make a cool and balanced version yourself.
Have a character or concept you reckon will never be 'unofficially officially' made? Make, into a custom of your very own, a version yourself.

Does it irk me that some counter intuitive outcomes can happen in starwars games? Sure (can't target a character behind a 2ft nothing droid, what the? a 3 x 3 character squeezing through a 1 x 1 square doorway, what? Maul's speeder bike not originally having flight? Oops?)
But, I used to be able to look around those things, because fun. Because Fun times would outweigh the 'what the?!" factor...
so, this all boils down to me hearing that,
people aren't having fun playing the game for some reason - and I'd like to hear more about all of those perspectives.

Thanks again for this discussion,
thanks for reading the novella here - but this particular topic is a recurring one, that's certainly something I learn from each time it's raised,
and I'm sure the discussion is bound to be interesting.

@jak,
well said
that aside, there's always space for you to make custom pieces (and accompanying minis) of your own
it'd be great to see what people can come up with.

http://www.bloomilk.com/Character/1592/yaddle--jedi-master

I do both.
they're all on the Bloo

let me rephrase all of this.

A perfect representation cannot be done, agreed.

However, getting as close as possible can be done.

Pieces should be limited to actual feats shown or enough feats to prove that something can be done or by word of mouth declaring that something can be done. Sometimes it is tricky, so I would say ere on the side of caution.

For instance, Sever Force. Yaddle is supposed to have Force light abilities, but has never been shown to use Sever Force. So can you justify giving her Sever Force? I would say no.

If a character has not portrayed a lightsaber style they cannot have a style.

Names of characters can help identify what part of time you are trying to portray.
I turn to Luke, Rebel Commando for my example. You know exactly what you are portraying and in my opinion it is very well done in this piece.
Another example of a well done piece is EP, Reborn.
Absolute Devotion is an abstraction, but you can see it happening. It is a good translation into the game mechanics that we are allowed to use.

If a designer cannot prove that a piece has done something or could do something by various other feats than that piece should not be allowed to have that ability. If a designer cannot justify an abstraction that has to manifest itself through game mechanics set in place than it should not be allowed either.

Absolute devotion, in my opinion, is clearly justified. Swap is clearly justified imo, etc.

Balnce committee has the job of making sure things are justified. That is why the idea of the mouse droid providing cover is in question. Same concept, more precise scale as it should be done in the design process imo.

Koba's question nicely translated by jen



It's obvious that WOTC made characters from specific scenes/times. How else could we have 50 versions of Yoda, Luke, etc.

Equally obvious that some people like to make customs and a customizer has liberty to do what they want. Having said that ....

I think "and this is strictly IMOHO" that the V-Setters, as the caretakers of the game, should have a moral obligation to create pieces that have the flavor and abilities of the given, unique character. If they don't, the game becomes something other than what it was intended/should be. Yes, most Jedi shouldn't be stopped by doors, should have lightsaber block/deflect/defense, never really run out of force points, etc but that's all part of the game mechanics. The unique character should still reflect its "Real" character, as should the non-force rated uniques. If they want to create a piece for a certain need, find a character that could/would have the ability and run with it, but don't automatically say X character, who has never done this, can do it Now.

I personally research all my characters/species to keep them as close as possible when I make my cards, otherwise I'm just "making things up" and that would ruin the fun I have doing what I enjoy, which is creating Star Wars cards; they wouldn't be "Star Wars" if I made up crap, they'd just be generic junk. Chewie is not suddenly going to gain Diplomat or Speed 10.

Customs for fun? Have at it. But if you want to be taken even remotely serious, you can't have a Death Star era Leia suddenly use "Battle Meditation" like her Legacy of the Force piece, and Han can't Force Push anybody no matter how hard he tries...