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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 12/30/2015
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Yo.
I was thinking on the walk home from work today: what would a game look like between two known factions? What I mean is if you were to organise a game with an opponent and you decided on the factions BEFORE you worked out your squads, what would that do to the game? My thinking is that, if it was a war, you generally know who your opponent is, just not specifically what you'd encounter... how does that then translate into a SWM game? Do certain factions face an automatic loss to others? Or do the individual factions have the ability within their own (or utilising Fringe options) to make a viable squad?
(I was led to this because I played a game against a student today and I walloped him... but I began to wonder what would have happened if we had already pre-decided which factions we'd run before we played. In a tournament, you can make a squad you think reflects the Meta and you'll have wins and losses accordingly... but in a one-off game, how can you plan for that completely random opponent squad choice? I have been on both the giving and receiving ends of some massive thumpings due to straight-out squad make-up.)
So, then: thoughts! Are their any factions that automatically lose out? In a tournament like, say the Melee-only Vassal tourney, where you could choose a new squad for each game, would declaring the factions ahead of time (but NOT the squad itself!) matter?
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Lobot really helps a squad adapt as well. I think there's a different art for building squads for one off games than for tournaments - often extreme builds have the best chance of winning a whole tournament (like Jim's high activation GenCon squad), but more balanced builds are better off for one-off games. That might just be me though.
I've been playing lots of games play-testing for v-set 12, and our normal playtest procedure is to make four squads from the pieces that need testing, then randomly draw two and play them against each other. Occasionally you get terrible mismatches, like an Old Republic squad with Bastila and lots of damage negation against Rebel grunts with lots of CEs, but most of the time it's pretty fun.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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True. Although, I'm wondering if anyone has done a significant amount of specific faction vs specific faction stuff. Its the norm to make a squad for a game against an unknown opponent. There is possible little or no information about something like I'm describing. I've actual wondered about something like this for some time (its not a recent thought process). I did once want to run a tournament where everyone chose a faction as opposed to a squad and you were able to tailor your squad against a faction. Has anyone run anything like that?
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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The last few group get togethers we've been playing themed games where its Imps vs Rebs, where teams play against each other and another time it was the OR vs Sith.
What I discovered was many times you overthink what your opponent will play. I had the Rebels one Saturday and I was thinking the other side would do variations of Vader and/or Thrawn swaps instead I went against a Reborn Shadow Trooper squad and an all Fringe squad with just Daric LaRone as the Imp. I had mostly a Rebel SS except I always had a good Obi/Yoda beatstick backup. The dang Invisible brats made it impossible to kill unless I based them (he was silly once where he had an uggie next to two Shadow Troopers and I killed them with a barrage of grenades) and they even managed to kill Yoda (which is how I lost that game.) The Fringe squad was another sad story....
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Interesting! This is the kind of stuff I'm after! Very intriguing about overthinking your opponents. I know that without knowing your opponents faction (for one-off games), it gets even more extreme.
So, Rebels is a case in point: How do they fare generally against the other factions? Just quickly thinking...
OR: You might run more hero-based squads that rely less on CEs
Sith: Bodyguards to absorb the massive damage from beats and load up on shooters?
Rep: Like against Sith?
Vong: Shooters maybe...
...actually, its harder than I imagined - but coming up with 10 different styles of play is perhaps harder to theoretically do than to just think about your one opponent and their chosen faction. I might try this at the school with the students and see what kind of results we get.
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The last two vassal campaigns (and one current one) have been known factions against another. Seps versus Republic, Rebels and Empire, etc... Generally there is around 5-10 really good builds per faction and once you know that you can tailor your squads around it somewhat. I.E. Never using important CEs against OR. And expect heavy shooter Defense in republic squads. Not mention evade in rebels. Obviously droids in seps (which you can get around by bringing some of the living teams since people always expect droids). And forget the force and shooter Defense against Vong. But there is enough variety to keep it interesting
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Thinking about it another way, I think these are some of the successful extreme squads in the game:
Tankiness: Sith tank squads can get masses of force points and negate damage with them.
Swarms: Daala probably has this in terms of competitive play, although I guess Rodian Brute/Ewok swarms are even more extreme in terms of activations.
CE Negation: Bastila, Jedi Master shuts down CEs boardwide.
Unavoidable damage: Blast Bug in Vong.
Mass killing: mainly Yobuck for Republic and Durge on Speeder for Seps.
Outactivate and Smash: Thrawn, Ozzel, plus activations.
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In the campaign recently, I (on Republic) ran an Ewok squad against my Imperial opponent. I was concerned about having a strafe counter (which is funny, because I have never actually played competitively enough to face a Strafe squad), until I realized that the only Strafer the Imperials have is the outmoded Scout Trooper on Speeder Bike. So I swarmed Ewoks without hesitation, and did quite well against an opponent expecting Jedi.
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