the only way to keep the game from getting complicated would have been to say, we are doing... 4 sets to get sith, mandos, old republic, and vong playable then stopping there.

If I may throw my hat in the ring:

First off kkj, I enjoy seeing your (and others') appreciation for WotC pieces. I like the v-set pieces a lot, but sometimes there's nothing that hits the spot more than cobbling together some weird squad and having fun with it. I also very much appreciate the understanding tone of your posts; it's really easy for internet posts to be taken the wrong way, but it is clear you have no ill-will towards anyone and are simply communicating your thoughts in a respectful way. (essentially, ditto to what Darth Jim said)

I think we all agree SWMinis is about having fun. As has been discussed on previous threads, fun means different things to different people. Some people love the classic WotC pieces, and enjoy running thematic squads and recreating battles from the movies. Others relish the competitive challenge of building the squad that can beat most others.

The most important thing I can offer to this discussion is this section: remembering others' standpoints will help us avoid a lot of debating. Like Darth Revan: I can agree with the "casual-focus" players that he's a really cool piece, but I can also agree with the "tournament-focused" players that if I'm going to Gencon, I should leave him at home.

When a "competitive" player says a piece is useless, the intent is to say what years of experience has shown: the piece in question doesn't cut the mustard competitively. But I don't think anyone wants to deter you from playing it for fun.

Similarly, when a "casual" player says a piece is really good, they aren't saying they'll conquer the tournament scene with Nikto Snipers, but simply that the piece in question works well for their casual games. I've played a lot of weird, cobbled-together WotC squads, and unless someone brings something weird like extreme Jedi hate, casual WotC squads are usually pretty balanced against each other.

I know that's not really news, but I wanted to verbalize it. Not calling anyone out, just a reminder (for myself as much as anyone) of an important internet communication skill.

On to your ideas...

As far as your proposed changes, I think they'd make great house rules, but I wouldn't be a fan of most of them "officially." Specifically pertaining to doors and map choice. The attacking doors idea is certainly thematic, but as EmperorDragon and TheHutts mentioned, door control is part of the strategy of the game. They'd be great for house rules; when playing for fun I'd much rather have a strike team of Jedi cutting through doors than having to bring Ugnaughts along everywhere. But I think these changes, while fun (and again, awesome for house rules!) miss the art of competitive play.

The whole point of competitive play is making a good squad that - between its inherent playability and your skill - can beat a wide variety of other squads in a variety of circumstances. Let's say I build a squad relying on AT-STs, and end up playing on a map with lots of small spaces, so they're almost useless. I am the only one to blame for losing that round, because I did not come well-enough prepared to work with the size disadvantage. (In general, I'm not a huge fan of vehicles larger than Speeder Bikes anyways). Likewise, if I neglect to bring door control of some sort, it's my fault if I get locked out - I had the opportunity to come prepared against it but failed to do so.

Huges not being affected by terrain - mostly on board with that. Huge Walker is a step in the right direction, and again, better huges mitigate the problem some.

Lightsabers... yeah, it's awkward, and I wouldn't really mind it one way or another, but if we've made it this long without changing it, I'm not sure it would be worth the effort to change it. There's a lot of weird problems that go along with it - assuming the change went through, if Jax Pavan hits an adjacent Imperial Knight, and gets owned by Cortosis Gauntlet, does that mean his blaster shuts down? I think it would, according to current rulings. Also, a semi-important note: changing attacks with Lightsabers to melee would hamstring one of the remaining WotC builds: the great strength of Mara Jade, Jedi is that her attacks can't be Blocked/Parried, and most non-melee defenses don't work against adjacent characters.

You've got some great stuff for house rules, but I think it would be a bit much of a change for the game competitively.

Only Industrial Repair can remove damage from a damaged door and a destroyed door can't be replaced. I think this gives IR a bit more of usefulness as Repair is much more common and useful. At least Carth Onasi can do SOMETHING now haha.



No, doors act like walls until there are destroyed. If they are destroyed through splash damage the splash effect is resolved before removing the door. (my idea for solving this issue)
Regarding Force Push etc, do you mean like a character beeing force pushed while standing next to a door? If the door is destroyed by the damage, yes the character would be moved through the now open door, because Force Push deals damage first and then forces movement.



This is something that i had thought about many times. For instance, i REALLY like the first V-set Destiny of the Force, there is almost no piece in that set i don't like, the long needed Ki-Adi-Mundi, Jedi Master, a better Revan and Bastila, a java with reprogram (very cool idea!), a Jaina, Sword of the Jedi, Jacen, Jedi Knight etc... So many great characters that WOTC did not make or didn't give an appropriate update to. To me, as a WOTC-only player, this feels like a perfect set. As you may see, mostly because it closes gaps of missing characters. That these new characters are also more "playable" or even top pieces is just a plus.
Now returning to what i actually wanted to say, i feel that that Deaths Baine holds some truth in his statement. I think for the casual player just creating a few new sets for filling niches and boosting "unplayable" factions and figures would have been a much more enjoyable approach. For me it sure would be. Of course not for the competitive players, but for casual play i think we already really have enough options with WOTC. Just some few characters missing and maybe sometimes problems with "powerpieces" but thats about it for casual players.




Yes. I also made the experience that WOTC's factions seem to be pretty balanced against each other in "era-battles", meaning like YZ only vs NR for instance. I'm pretty sure that WOTC did design the factions this way. (Is it coincidence that of the 5 minor factions (available-figures-wise) only NR is competitive? They can fight the Empire in "era-battles", which is a competitive faction. Maybe that's just interpreting too much, but it's a interesting thought i think)



Yeah, i stumbled across this problem too, with the Jedi Sentinel. My solution to this would be:

-Add the following to the definition of Cortosis Gauntlet (just Glossary): "If this special ability affects an enemy
without Melee Atack it only reduces the damage bonus of the Lightsaber special ability (if any)"

I did have to think a bit about that, because there is the confusing point of having a lightsaber without the
Lightsaber special ability. I think the rule turned out as simply as possible.



Thanks for the feedback, i really enjoy hearing your opinion on this topics. I don't want to change competitive play or persuade people to not use v-sets, but i would really enjoy an alternative to the V-set approach, something like the rules i proposed.
Just for the players that prefer the game similiar as is do. Maybe this would also be interesting for the competitive players, to see which way the game could have taken or which way it could be balanced and changed for the better without creating more and more options. I would really love to see a thread or own sub-page just for this rules or changes, because scrolling through all this posts is a bit annoying to check some rules or something like that :)

I think it shouldn't be a complete change to the competitive game as players have grown to love the V-sets and this way of the game. It could much rather be an alternative rules-section for play without the established V-sets that tries to handle the problems WOTC had left us in a simpler and easier way.



I think i have never seen someone who thinks that people like me could actually change anything about the V-set-usage haha :D
Don't worry, as i said above i don't want to force changes in the competitive game-scene or try to persuade people to better not use and create V-sets. This is just an idea for using a different concept of
game(re)design for the people that like to play the game the way i do or similiar. You're free to completely ignore all suggestions made here, they won't affect your style of play or the V-sets at all anyway, as they have been established for years now and made this game keep a lot of vitality.

Okay, that would be really cool, I would use Force Push 3 just for the image of blasting someone through a door


Thanks, that clears a lot up. Have you checked out Vassal at all? You'd be able to test out some of your ideas with similarly-minded players, if the time difference isn't too much of a problem.

Yeah, not sure how much difference it makes though.

Was hardly on at all yesterday, what did I miss?