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Poll Question : Feelings about very powerfully boosted non-uniques
Choice Votes Statistics
I love swarms! Bring on more non-unique boosts! 3 8.333333 %
I don't mind them, I feel we're in a fine spot 9 25.000000 %
We've gone a little overboard. Reel it in a bit. 19 52.777777 %
I hate them! Nuke them all! 5 13.888888 %

How do you feel about very powerfully boosted non-unique swarms? Options
TimmerB123
Posted: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 7:57:50 AM
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Where do you want the game to go in terms of swarm squads?
CorellianComedian
Posted: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 10:51:07 AM
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By "reel it in a little bit," I'd like to see more pieces like Jango Mandalore where it's just not feasible to try and gun through their high defense. We have enough strafe/gallop, making more of those only kills the Trooper builds that aren't swarms.
TimmerB123
Posted: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 10:54:41 AM
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CorellianComedian wrote:
By "reel it in a little bit," I'd like to see more pieces like Jango Mandalore where it's just not feasible to try and gun through their high defense. We have enough strafe/gallop, making more of those only kills the Trooper builds that aren't swarms.


Gotcha. We are talking about possible ways to address this in vset 14
TheHutts
Posted: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 9:04:12 PM
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I don't think there's enough denial around. Bastila was good for the meta, but Trooper swarms with Ysalamari and Vong swarms can largely ignore her. Both builds aren't too bothered by disruptive with the right support and right map too.
juice man
Posted: Thursday, September 1, 2016 3:15:31 AM
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TheHutts wrote:
I don't think there's enough denial around. Bastila was good for the meta, but Trooper swarms with Ysalamari and Vong swarms can largely ignore her. Both builds aren't too bothered by disruptive with the right support and right map too.
No, no, no. That's wrong.Flapper
shmi15
Posted: Friday, September 2, 2016 5:01:40 AM
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Joined: 4/19/2010
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Enter Ability name here- Non unique characters may not have their base attack raised while attacking this character


EDIT

*This issue would be helped by making CE not board wide
General_Grievous
Posted: Friday, September 2, 2016 7:45:13 AM
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While Snowtroopers/Daala was maybe a bit much. My favourite swarm the battle droid hasn't seen the light of day in years. They could use a prideful Grievous boost. But factions that already increase damage/mobile/evade for the masses (looking at you republic/imperial/rebel/new republic) already have enough help.
urbanjedi
Posted: Saturday, September 3, 2016 9:58:13 PM
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The biggest problem (IMO) with swarms, is that they often utilize cheap pieces, which in turn means that they have a bunch of stay in the back commanders. This creates an almost impossible situation for the opponent because it is very difficult to get 1 pt, let alone a 3 pt win against a swarm unless you have some sort of scissors piece.

I think some way to make the commanders be vulnerable (ie out front) with the rest of the guys, or some piece that maybe increases the points you get when you kill swarm pieces (ie when you defeat an opponents piece that costs 10 or less you score double points for that piece) would go a long way to making swarms playable while at the same time not impossible.
shmi15
Posted: Sunday, September 4, 2016 8:12:11 PM
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urbanjedi wrote:
I think some way to make the commanders be vulnerable (ie out front) with the rest of the guys, or some piece that maybe increases the points you get when you kill swarm pieces (ie when you defeat an opponents piece that costs 10 or less you score double points for that piece) would go a long way to making swarms playable while at the same time not impossible.



If only there was a way to make commanders closer to other pieces, like within 6 squares of them for a reason and purpose.... ThumbsUp ThumpUp
Caedus
Posted: Sunday, September 4, 2016 8:25:10 PM
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I'm fine with the board wide CE's, but why not have an ERRATA that makes the commander have LOS to the Character gaining the ability or to a character with Relay Orders? You could still "hide" them from most, but would still have to be careful of accurate shooters.
jen'ari
Posted: Monday, September 5, 2016 6:15:50 AM
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Joined: 5/3/2014
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Here is my problem with non-uniques being powerful. just read this comic and see what a Dark Lord can do to Non-unique fighters.

http://www.readcomics.tv/star-wars-vader-down/chapter-1/13

http://www.readcomics.tv/star-wars-vader-down/chapter-1/34


we all know what happens after that last comic (or I hope we do ;)

Non-uniques suck, Darth Vader killed, literally hundreds of them without a problem. There is no need for a non-unique to ever be able to do as much damage, move as fast, etc. as Vader.


P.S. are we ever going to get a SITH Vader?
Lafcadio
Posted: Monday, September 5, 2016 1:54:20 PM
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Joined: 5/8/2015
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jen'ari wrote:
Here is my problem with non-uniques being powerful. just read this comic and see what a Dark Lord can do to Non-unique fighters.

Non-uniques suck, Darth Vader killed, literally hundreds of them without a problem. There is no need for a non-unique to ever be able to do as much damage, move as fast, etc. as Vader.


So, I didn't read the comics, but I think I can guess how they play out: Vader takes down an army of "non-uniques" single-handedly. When characters like Vader do something like that, you can walk away from that thinking about it one of two ways:

1. Wow! Vader is awesome! He can take on an entire army of elite soldiers single-handedly!
or
2. Wow! Those people are so lame that Vader can take out an army of them single-handedly.

I'm guessing the writers of stories like that want people to think about it the first way - that the hero of the story is awesome, as opposed to: Vader took down an army? So what? Anyone who's anyone can do that because those troopers are so terrible.

I think the same thing should be true in SWM. I think if a piece like Vader is able to dispatch an army of non-uniques, it should be because that piece itself is awesome enough to take them on, not just because it went up against an army of lame pieces. And if a piece IS able to take on an army of non-uniques, that should be one really good piece! Not just any unique should be able to take down a bunch of troopers. Otherwise it's not impressive anymore...

Right now, most of the squads that I see on Bloomilk are just a few of Tank warriors thrown together Three Musketeers style, but I think it'd be awesome to see more squad with one or two heroes leading a squad of troops! Like squads recreating epic battles like Crystophisys (I probably butchered that spelling):

A squad with a bunch of clones, clones w/jetpack etc, then just a few heroes like Rex and Obi-wan
vs
a squad with battle/super battle droids, some Octuptarras and droidekas, an AAT (if it were an actual piece) and Whorm.

To me, that would be an epic game to play! Imagining getting to recreate battles like that was one of the big things that got me into minis in the first place! I'd love to see more people using predominantly non-unique squads!

I definitely don't have anything against those Three Musketeer squads, and I think matching them against swarm squads can be a lot of fun! I think match-ups like that even add a very cool flavor to the game!

One final argument in favor of more boosts for Swarm squads: swarm squads seem to do pretty well in the movies. Palpatine used this one in Episode III, and it seemed to work:

--Operation Knightfall--
Darth Vader, Sith Apprentice
501st Legion Clone Trooper x200

jen'ari
Posted: Monday, September 5, 2016 2:14:03 PM
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Joined: 5/3/2014
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@^^

I am with you.
Than you either have your scrubs waste their time trying to bring down their big hero or let the heroes battle it out and let the scrubs fight each other.
Rebels are the best faction for this in my opinion. Luke fights with Vader while Han, Leia and the rebel troopers vs. Commander so and so and storm troopers. Works great.

SithBot
Posted: Monday, September 5, 2016 2:19:41 PM
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Joined: 11/1/2014
Posts: 192
Swarms are fun, especially when used in casual play. But I will agree with others. They need a big name to lead them. and the big name should not be taken down by other non-uniques, like at all. Big time uniques should really only be taken down by special circumstances or other big names.
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