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By the Numbers: Melee vs Ranged avoidance Options
donnyrides
Posted: Friday, March 24, 2017 10:09:17 AM
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By the Numbers: Melee vs Ranged Avoidance

As of 3/24/2017 and not counting 100 point or higher characters

Ranged Aggravation
220: number of stealth characters. This does not count how lost tribe, Elite Clone Troopers, Mercenaries, Vong collaborators, non-unique Ewoks or all Vong Followers by way of Commander Effects

31: number of Clocked characters
21: number of Force Cloak characters

86: number of characters with Evade, not to mention the entire NR, Vong, and Rebel factions

78: number of characters with LS Deflect
8: number of characters with a form of LS Reflect

14: number of characters with Soresu Style and Mastery (When hit by an attack from a nonadjacent enemy, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)
6: number of characters with Shien Style or Mastery (When hit by a non melee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)

ON THE OTHER HAND...Melee
34: number of parry characters
6: number of characters with Makashi Style or mastery (When hit by a melee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11. etc...)
70: number of characters with LS Block

Some Extras
16: Number of Djem so or mastery characters. This doesn't stop damage but it does get to hit back.
54: LS defense characters which would count for both Melee and Ranged attacks

Then you still have the guys like the Viper Droid, BX spotter, Jar Jar Binks who can divert or redirect non melee attacks and characters that provide super stealth.

This data has made me shift gears from going with shooters to going heavy melee. It's not a perfect science as each piece is more or less powerful than the next, but if you are thinking about meta and what to expect when you play your next tournament or when you game group gets together, this sort of info may help you. Use this with any trending you see in regional reports to give yourself a leg up.
shatterpoint7
Posted: Saturday, March 25, 2017 7:55:40 AM
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Wow thats kind of cool how you researched all of that.
General_Grievous
Posted: Saturday, March 25, 2017 8:35:13 AM
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Great job! That's why my Father, Grievous and Kyle team did so well. I went up against mostly melee
DarthMaim
Posted: Saturday, March 25, 2017 10:20:45 AM
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General_Grievous wrote:
Great job! That's why my Father, Grievous and Kyle team did so well. I went up against mostly melee



Congrats on your regional win Grievous! Very cool to see a team with 3 characters win! With that being said, how do you see your "The Father" squad, or any other "Father" squad doing at GenCon? How would it do against a shooter squad? I suppose that it would really depend on which 2 minis you bring with "The Father". Further, what would you say might be the most balanced "Father" squad, that could potentially do well against both melee and shooting?
jak
Posted: Saturday, March 25, 2017 1:37:23 PM
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donnyrides wrote:


14: number of characters with Soresu Style and Mastery (When hit by an attack from a nonadjacent enemy, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)
[b.


there 14 characters with SS or SSM
they are very different.
Soresu style works with non-adjacent attacks only.
Soresu style Mastery works with ALL attacks alot better IMO.

just Obi-Wan (5 versions) and Darth Zannah have SSM

that's like having Evade and Parry
7 characters do, 6 under 100 points
TimmerB123
Posted: Sunday, March 26, 2017 11:13:07 PM
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jak wrote:
[quote=donnyrides]
SSM . . .
that's like having Evade and Parry


Not quite - SSM is better. Evade shuts off when you are adjacent. SSM does not.
kobayashimaru
Posted: Sunday, March 26, 2017 11:43:25 PM
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awesome stuff, this is a neat meta discussion.
there's a lot of hobson's choice factor in this.

now, compare that table,
with "Direct Damage" options, and "Area of Effect" things.
and compare with the random seed of vong beat squads and diplomat/superstealth squads.

compare the chances of a successful attack with direct damage,
area of effect, splash, or disintegration,
and survivability of squad by turn 2 or 3,
and it's almost at the point where you'd want to go all in missiles or grenades and force lightning in 250 and 300. BigGrin
it bypasses a lot of targeting issues.
that, or nom-bombs counter-camping.

gotta love the combinatorics of SWMinis meta composing hehe.

@donnyrides
why would you go heavy melee?
past discussions have suggested shooter-v-shooter simuls would be more likely, and the only way to counter would be to make a shooter-evade themed squad, or a glass-cannon theme squad. the glass cannon squad takes out the scrubs one at a time, asymmetrically.
so heavy melee to avoid the advantage to counter-shooter squads? ie, all their shooter defenses are useless.
trouble is, they tend to bring missiles or direct damage as part of their shooting mix.

you burn through forcepoints, and can't survive against any melee they have.
they back up and volley, or pincer near gambit and gambit-camp.

if you go super-stealth, that can still nerf non-sniper enemies for range.
superstealth/diplomat though has trouble for damage output,
and it becomes 'ring around the rosies' for gambit positioning.
that relies on disruptive pieces and whatnot though, and they're risky once they go down,
usually from missiles or flamethrower or corruption (dang that spooked ewok doctor of death!) BigGrin
jak
Posted: Monday, March 27, 2017 4:33:39 AM
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TimmerB123 wrote:
jak wrote:
[quote=donnyrides]
SSM . . .
that's like having Evade and Parry


Not quite - SSM is better. Evade shuts off when you are adjacent. SSM does not.


@Timmy!
I said like, not identical.
Luv
Jak
donnyrides
Posted: Monday, March 27, 2017 5:13:55 AM
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@kobayashimaru

The reason I use this to go melee is because I am seeing that there are so many more shooting avoidance abilities that I want to bypass them with melee. But meta plays a larger roll. As for the numbers I found, I've enjoyed using something like the below squad where I am using a lot of the mentioned shooter avoidance then once i'm in close enough, I can rain pain on the shooters. If I know that supersteath and evade are abundant, I'm less likely to play into it and would rather take my chances with some hard hitting defensive melee. I do like your point about unavoidable damage if there is so much avoidance out there. Didn't think to go that route. Blast bugs, flame thrower, or to a lesser degree, range 12 grenades 30X2.

--- Army of Light Green--
45 Valenthyne Farfalla - LS defense, Makeshi, bubble
36 Corellian Jedi Lord - bubble, defense
30 Arfan Ramos - super stealth, Bubble, defense Corellian JL's CE
52 Green Jedi x2 - super stealth, Bubble, defense Corellian JL's CE
18 Arca Jeth, Jedi Spirit - Can give everybody defense
15 Army of Light Consular - bubble and defense
3 Ugnaught Demolitionist

Preferred Reinforcements:
(Farfalla) 20 Old Republic Rookie x5
OR
Squint
OR
Mirialan Jedi Knight
kobayashimaru
Posted: Monday, March 27, 2017 5:31:38 PM
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@donnyrides
I see, that makes more sense.
otherwise, based on what you're likely to face at the tournament or local,
it might have seemed to simul would have been the more adaptable.

Super-stealth and gambit threat, without the ring-a-round-a-rosies for gambit.
yeah, by odds, even if folks tried a balanced with hobsons auto-include against it,
it has decent damage output against the first 2 standard deviations of what you're likely to come up against.

I do see area of effect and direct-damage squads on the rise in local meta;
Vong have decent survivability against them, and superstealth/diplomat can't be targeted hehe.
and in the last few tournaments, they've done better than expected.
there's several "cloning Dash Rendar" themed squads, which are a naboo pilot or flipping naboo soldier squad on roids hehe BigGrin
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