|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/9/2008
Posts: 4,729
Location: Chicago
|
So an interesting discussion lead to this post. Wanted hive mind to throw ideas in the mix.
We're focusing on Vset 7 or later (sets 1-5 were helping some factions be playable at all, as well as helping to define faction play styles, etc) and set 6 was . . . set 6.
So - of Vset 7-15, which piece is most integral to its faction? When you build with a faction - you START with this piece.
(Think R2-D2 Astromech for the Republic)
Then we can play the game - show me a squad without that piece in said faction, and I'll show you a better squad in that faction with that piece.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
|
Does subfaction count? General Leia, Rebel Ahsoka, Bib, and others are staple pieces in a subfaction. Not sure if there are any for a full faction.
Amanoa comes close but if you expect a low activation meta and cover shooter defense another way she's not needed.
XT-6 might qualify except I think it's the last thing you put in instead of the first. If door control is covered and I have the points I pretty much always add one, but I don't go out of my way to make room for it.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 9/19/2008
Posts: 1,740
Location: Orange County, CA
|
FlyingArrow wrote:Does subfaction count? General Leia, Rebel Ahsoka, Bib, and others are staple pieces in a subfaction. Not sure if there are any for a full faction.
Amanoa comes close but if you expect a low activation meta and cover shooter defense another way she's not needed.
XT-6 might qualify except I think it's the last thing you put in instead of the first. If door control is covered and I have the points I pretty much always add one, but I don't go out of my way to make room for it. I was looking at an Imp squad today and I noticed something; its a pretty rare Imp, Republic or Sith squad without their Booming Voices. Not impossible, but almost as auto as it gets. Relay has made it easier to live without, but Booming trumps that.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 5/3/2014
Posts: 2,098
|
Xt should be an auto include in every old republic squad. most tier 1 or have the senator.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010
Posts: 3,562
Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
|
Yeah, I think there's nothing really faction defining, and some of the best ones have already been mentioned. Leia and Bib are probably closest, and there are lots of competitive pieces that slot into existing builds. surf_rider56 wrote:I was looking at an Imp squad today and I noticed something; its a pretty rare Imp, Republic or Sith squad without their Booming Voices. Not impossible, but almost as auto as it gets. Relay has made it easier to live without, but Booming trumps that. I normally only like Booming Voice in: - swap squads - with Daala - fiddly CEs like GMA Otherwise it's not worth it, especially in Sith. If you want 20 points of tech in Sith, I'd take Amanoa every time.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/18/2008
Posts: 1,097
Location: Kokomo
|
TimmerB123 wrote:So - of Vset 7-15, which piece is most integral to its faction? When you build with a faction - you START with this piece. The older characters; Bastila, Kelborn, Caedus SL, Yobuck, Thrawn, Talon, ect. are still the most integral to their factions. New pieces like XT-6 and Holocrons are very integral but not really squad starters. You could "start" with newer characters like Venku, Vader of Scarif, or Cognus . . . but they're not really the central focus of a squad..
Vset 7-15 faction integral "tier 1 squad starters" Old Republic -Ven Zallow, Jedi Master UF 6 -Master Q'Anilia UF 5 Sith -Darth Bane, Sith'ari AaO 8 -Darth Plagueis, The Wise MCA Mandalorian -Jango Fett, Mandalore MCA 28 Republic -Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker EA 10 Separatist -None Rebels -Kyle Katarn, Rebel Hero MCA 17 -Ahsoka Tano, Champion of the Rebellion MCA 16 Imperials -Darth Vader of Lothal LTA 22 New Republic -General Leia Organa GF 15 -Lando Calrissian, New Republic Liaison EA 27 -Garm Bel Iblis, Ruthless Tactician EA 25 Yuuzhan Vong -Zenoc Quah AaO 60 -Eighth Cortex Shaper UF 27 -Tsavong Lah, Warrior Elite WaS 44 Fringe -Boba Fett, Assassin for Hire SHA 30 -Bib Fortuna, Majordomo LTA 32 -The Father NST 5
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/9/2008
Posts: 4,729
Location: Chicago
|
A lot of interesting discussion here.
I can see that what I was specifically looking for was not clearly conveyed, so I'll try again. (it's my fault)
I am not looking for faction squadtypes or subfaction cornerstones.
If you could call it a [blank] squad, that's not what I'm looking for.
I am looking for equivalents to R2-D2 Astromech.
When asked the question "what type of republic squad are you running today?"
Nobody says "I'm running an R2-D2 Astromech squad" (with any warrant)
He just goes in every tier one Republic squad. Period. (And yes you could show me a Republic squad without R2 Astromech in it, but I guarantee you I can show you a better republic squad with him in it)
R2 Astromech is the first 9pts of any Republic squad.
Dodonna used to be the same for Rebel and NR, but after years of chipping away at him and building up around him, he's no longer an auto-include. (but is still right up there).
So what has the last 5 years brought us in a similar vein?
I'd say the XTC droid is the closet I've seen from the answers above, although TJ's point is well taken that it's how you round out a squad, not how you typically start.
Amanoa is valid for the discussion, but as TJ pointed out, that's based on a specific meta. I've seen plenty of top tier Sith squads without her. She is more of a gatekeeper peice. Made to hate on a specific squad type (Outactivate and smash), partially in hopes that its presence alone will scare people away from playing that squad type
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 8/29/2017
Posts: 278
|
I will try to find one for each faction
OR and Sith: have the XT
Mandos: have the Demolitionist
Vong: Yun-Ne'Shel Priest and Dooje Brolo
NR: Eryl Besa and BB8
Republic and OR: The Jedi Holocron can be considered for each squad, but hes not an auto
Imps: ?? No clue
Fringe: ? Same
Seps: Didn't garner any broad sweeping cheap tech
Rebels: Really have the cream of the crop with See-Threepio (C-3PO), no contest Imo
Few factions have gotten power 9 Tech pieces since 6, especially at such an affordable cost. NR got two golden boys with Eryl and BB. Sorely needed to, but definitely top tier. Vongs Priest has been a bane for a lot of people, pretty OP. Demolitionsist, amazing faction flavorful cheap tech. The others are good, and BB8 is kind of similar in his effect, but for his cost C3PO is the biggest bargain since R2 Astro and Dodanna. An absolute steal and the corner stone of all of my Rebel builds.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
|
See-Threepio is a candidate. Cloaked is great, but useless against melee (although a Diplomat-Distraction is great against Melee). And if you want to go the Evade-TBSV route to get GMA (through either Klat Captain or Rieekan), then Cloaked is kind of overkill on top of Evade. Probably better off spending the points elsewhere.
Then again, Rieekan had traditionally been an auto-include in Rebels. He's no longer an auto-include. Klap Captain and Threepio are alternatives to him... just about every Rebel squad will have one of those 3 characters. Does it count for a piece to be a viable alternative to a squad staple even if it doesn't totally replace it?
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/9/2008
Posts: 4,729
Location: Chicago
|
TJ you're making the arguement for Threepio based only on one (admittedly overpowered and not well thought out) ability on him.
Include diplomat and distraction (which is crushing to melee), complete override dominance (with any R2), and his CE.
The only piece in the entire game right now that is comparable in the fact that you will it include it in every single one of their respective factions squads is R2-D2 Astromech.
Threepio is an auto include in every single top tier rebel squad. Period.
With rebels you start with Threepio and add 188 pts.
He's more important than Dodonna now. THAT speaks volumes
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 7/9/2008
Posts: 4,729
Location: Chicago
|
I did think about BB-8. He's really great. I'd say he's a power 9.5. I'll consider him in every new republic squad but he might not make the final cut on every single one. Eryl? Seriously? Just because Jason did good with her a couple times? Jason does good with everyone! I would only consider her in very specific squads. I'd say she's a 7 Vong - Yun Ne'shell priest is bad design imo, and highly annoying. But you'll be less likely to play one with an 8th Cortex Shaper.  Dooje is good, but far from auto-include. Mando Demolitionists - I don't even use them (maybe that's why I can't win a regional with Mandos! Lol) Point for point the deathwatch saboteurs are much better. I'd work hard get one of those in my squad before the demolitionist any day.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 2,093
|
As others have said, there haven't been too many blanket tech pieces (especially cheap) in the last few sets, and most of the stuff has been on subfactions or specific interactions
Mandos:
Mando Demo -- Best door control in the game IMO, and I always find room for at least 1 if not 2.
Sith:
XT Droid -- Especially in a squad with a trailing shooter (like Jaq). Still really good to pop, to get rid of an act if you are playing the amanoa game.
Queen Amanoa -- A little meta dependent, but great shooter defense as well, so not a 1 trick pony. She doesn't always make the squad, but probably should.
Sith Holocron -- no one really talking about this piece, but this piece is great (also for seps and imps as well) Should make the cut every time if you have any big force users.
Sith Ordnance Specialist (from set 16) -- very similar to mando demo in that its really good door control plus other stuff.
OR:
XT Droid -- same comments as for Sith.
Covenant Defender -- Although doesn't always make the squad, and a little meta dependent
Jedi Holocron -- Not quite as good as the Sith HC, but still great (also for Rep/Reb/NR).
NR:
BB-8 -- One of the best pieces to come out in a while. Lots of neat tricks, and very mobile. Gives a shooter bonus (sensors) in a mostly shooter faction. Can't imagine playing NR without including the little guy.
Eryl -- Piece I always look at now, and a piece I used instead of Ganner. The ability to start out in a non-normal area is more powerful that it looks on paper. I have won 2 straight WI regionals with her.
Rep, Imp, Seps:
Appropriate Holocron -- Haven't looked too much at holocrons outside of Sith, but I would imagine they are almost as good in other factions.
Rebel:
3P0 -- Great tech, although somewhat meta dependent. Should compete with Reiikken for table time, and including both gets cumbersome on pts, and losing mobile can be less than good. And certainly more popular right now (but I think that has to do with newer and shinier) as I think they are a similar power level.
Jedi Holo -- Still haven't fleshed out a great squad here, but a HC on ahsoka (with acrobatic) seems really good
Vong:
Priest -- Although that more has to do with the evade 7
Zenoc Quah -- in combination with the priest, evade 7 plus other cool stuff has her as a place to start for almost every vong squad (especially with BB taking a hit)
Fringe:
Killik Drone -- not quite auto include level, but really solid and I see this guy in a ton of squads
Loth Cat -- I think people are still trying to figure out what to do with this guy. Movement breakers are always powerful, but this one is pretty situational. Still great tech.
Prowler Droid -- a little meta dependent and probably doesn't always make the cut, but certainly good if you expect your meta to have any guys he can help against.
|
|
|
Guest |