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That makes much more sense thanks for clarifying Surf haha
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surf_rider56 wrote:A Repeat from a custom character comment I made earlier (and don't want to repeat every custom …) "Its really not so much the cost that's the "problem," but custom makers are between a rock and a hard place between what the V-Setters do when low-balling costs and giving it what it is "worth" game-wise and then looking too much like a fan-boy. I have No Answer when comparing a piece from the V-Sets; all I can do as a custom maker is float out what it Should cost; That's on me, that's where I come from and despite what GG says about me being King of Costing … noone's dead and I'm Not in Charge! :) "I as a custom maker have to weigh all kinds of things. Apologies to shmi, jak or jen; can't remember who I had this discussion with. I don't try to create to fit the meta, I don't always worry about if its playable. An excellent example is shmi's Mud Trooper from the last CCC; it was a heck of a good character, but it wasn't really playable. Should that stop custom makers from Making? NO! Each individual has to draw their own line, realistic cost, or a "playable" cost (which while I have no proof, I suspect is what the V-Setters aim for.) I roll with what I think is a realistic cost; as I said above, that's on me. I personally think a +/-5 should always apply but again that's me. Too undercosted and I'll look at you and say its too fanboy … but that's on me too  Back to the real world, Peace surf Well said! And you'll always be the king of costing to me haha. I go off the more "compare to similar existing characters" and feel it out, add a couple safety points and then wait for you to let me know what to adjust for cost haha.
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24?
can you break it down for us?
Base stats should be a 12.
than you say Ambush is 4 points so GMA has to be 5.
Double is a 3 pointer
cloaked should be a 4 or 5 pointer.
opportunist should be a 3 or 4 pointer as well
so 12 + 5 + 3 + 4(5) + 3(4) = 27-29
that does not include a "bonus" for any combinations.
Even at 24 (let alone 29) the scout is still garbage.
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Also Surf I like your piece but may consider dropping grenades to drop his cost or allowing concussive blast to trigger off failed grenades saves instead/as well
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surf_rider56 wrote:Well, what the problem here is of course that all Mando's should actually have their "Mando" armor, so I took artistic license, gave him a slightly higher Defense than 15 or 16 and didn't actually use the Armor to save an SA space. Mandalorian Assault Trooper I used the "Assault Trooper" moniker because the Assault Troopers in war were the elite fighters specializing in attacking house to house …. you kow, like attacking a Jedi Temple room to room  It always annoyed me that Mandos never had grenades; Boba had missles but regular Mando's didn't use grenades? Mando's always seemed shortchanged, so here's my attempt at a more definitive Mando. Cheers, surf I love Concussive Blast... I see the theme, and I do like it. I just think competing in Mandos against some of the mid range ones are going to be tough without stretching some things. As is, I would choose the Mando Scout for sure. I would consider dropping grenades for something more incentive for this guy. I just think you need to many Ce to make this guy great. But I do like the ability to be door control.. But I would be worried its a bigger target on his head knowing you can kill some door control along with everything else.
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I've been thinking; people like concussive but say ditch grenades ,,,
Concussion Grenade (Replaces attacks: range 6; 20 damage to target and to each character adjacent to that target; save 11. If this character's attack misses, the target and all adjacent characters are considered activated; save 11.)
Hit? Usual Grenades damage. Miss? Targets concussed and therefore can't move/are stunned (activated.)
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surf_rider56 wrote:I've been thinking; people like concussive but say ditch grenades ,,,
Concussion Grenade (Replaces attacks: range 6; 20 damage to target and to each character adjacent to that target; save 11. If this character's attack misses, the target and all adjacent characters are considered activated; save 11.)
Hit? Usual Grenades damage. Miss? Targets concussed and therefore can't move/are stunned (activated.) I like it but I do think you need to change the second sentence to specify a character not taking damage from this ability as the trigger instead of an attack missing since it's not an attack haha
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Question about that - I like the idea of a grenade that can damage and or activate, but why if someone took damage would it not have the possibility of activating them? While I like the mechanic of one or the other, I struggle to imagine how you wouldn't be concussed in the case that you got hit, if it could have concussed you when you were unharmed.
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Sith Bot - nice looking grunt for sure, I just personally do not like the Careful shot Bonus. I think a different attack bonus of some kind, maybe synergy with them or something would've been cooler. Not much to gripe on, but I try to find something, lol.
Jenari - This one I think competes for competitive play. Spam them with the Captain and you get a few pretty good attackers. But, then again, maybe giving them +4 attack would be better, with the conditional twin... It would be interesting to see what squads came out of this guy.
Oakel - I think this guy should cost a bit less, maybe 15 and I would test him out and see what he could do. At 18 tho he is competing against the Mando Scout. I do like how he gets really good adjacent, cool little theme idea.
GTGW - This guy is a brick house for 19, but I like it I like the TM ability. Double Backlash is cool, and flight I think will come in handy more often than not. I do think the cost is about right for the faction it is in.
GG - Its another nice looking grunt that fits a certain niche. Being subject to CE is the only thing I don't like about them, because thematically they were often independent outfits working in small groups. Some sort of synergy for each other would've been cool to see.
Surf - I liked COncussive blast, it just needs to be cleaned up. I also like Thorium Charge on this guy, I just love that ability. Nice work.
ED- MP to me is a very NPE ability. Its just way to broad and works against pretty much any squad you go against, so this guy is always a +4/+10. No twin is good, but I just can not get on board with MP.
Caedus - My only gripe is IS on this guy. I just feel like he should be able to keep his allegiance. And I am not sure why is even on there?
1. GTGW
2. Jenari
3.Surf
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1. GG
2. Oakel
3. EmporerDragon
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Sithbot, simple and effective, though given the choice of careful or Mobile I would probably pick Mobile every time haha. Rolling Evade is a cool very Gears-of-War defensive ability. Solid stuff.
Jen, love the different angle you took focusing on crits and only thing is the mission briefing is awesome but I think the spirit of the contest this week was making a Mando that doesn't need commander effects to be good so not sure if having a "better antenna for CEs" is consistent with that but that being said it's a great fitting ability.
Emperor, you made a better Hunter ability and it's what that one should have been from the start, it is a bit wordy though and Assassin may have covered a similar enough turf.
Oakel, torn here because I just noticed that Coordinated movement helps all troopers/soldiers and not just mando ones, and I think theme-wise it makes more sense to make it just affect Mandalorians. Where it gets really messy is the Mandalorian Sergeant that hands out trooper to non-unique followers with a cost of 10 or less, so you could have a good chunk of the fringe faction being affected by coordinated movement. Anyways that aside I really like your character overall with the shooting to close the distance and engage in hand to hand combat, just a very cool Mandalorian image there.
Gandalf, very aggressively costed but True Mandalorian is sweet and makes these guys into a powerhouse. Unfortunately as awesome as it is, the theme of the week it sort of relies on not having commanders so mixed again here. You designed an awesome piece I would love to see in the game either way though.
Caedus, cloaked is one of the key abilities of the week it seems haha. Very powerful self destruct but also quite fitting for a Mandalorian to charge headfirst into battle then pull the pins on his grenades when he is about to die. And it would be a fun swarm squad.
Shmi, I really like he hand to hand theme again here and also a big death watch fan so cool to see another here. I have issues with martial arts giving adjacent characters melee attack and brings up the timing questions about when do they get/lose melee attack, what sorts of abilities can be used around them, how does melee reach interact amongst other questions. I think it would have been simpler to just have his abilities affect himself or clean up the wording to say adjacent enemy attacks count as melee attacks for the purposes of this character's abilities.
Surf, I would be hard pressed to choose grenades over his normal concussive shot in most cases and think you were onto something with your concussion grenades. As is he doesn't really hold up to the Scout gold standard. But being that your character is the only one with built-in door control you get extra points for that as the rest of us just bringing a squad of our own mando designs would lose hard against override haha.
I actually really liked everyone's Mandalorians and it just goes to show how creative people here are and how much room there is to expand the faction's non-uniques from what there is. Since I can't vote for everyone I narrowed my final three into the ones that best operate in a squad by themselves in a medium swarm and without any other characters, that being said here are my final picks:
3rd Oakel
2nd Caedus
1st Sithbot
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GG - great feedback about the CM ability on my submission, I totally missed that, and that was not the intention. I probably should have created a new SA that only applied to Mandos. I appreciate that you took the effort to notice that interaction!
It seems there was a lot of debate about costing for these units. I fall closer to the "keep costing similar to the already existing expectations, or cost to make a unit better than average but not exceptional." Otherwise I feel like you would get too much power creep too soon. To connect to this CCC, I found many of the submissions interesting, but a little too powerful to be able to tote 6 or more of them in a squad with good tech.
When it comes to making the "perfect" trooper as surf put it, my interpretation is for a unit that does a single thing well, and can therefore be played to that strength and feel good. That said, it seems a lot of people took it more to mean strong in many ways at the same time. My feedback is based upon this interpretation.
Sithbot - I like that the player chooses a more accurate shot against a mobile shot because it creates versatility and options of play. Unfortunately, I think it doesn't help the character overall as you are locked out of one to use the other, and that doesn't feel good as a player. Also, a basic unit with rolling evade could be awesome to see.
Jen - I like that this character clearly excels at one thing: shooting a lot. I think the deadly/flurry fits well with the base damage, and thematically as powerful ranged attackers. Mission briefing is clever and opens up some cool combinations (or just give them twin wherever).
GTGW - Definitely the most survivable of the units presented between 50hp, Bk'g, and flight. Very strong all around, with good shooting and direct damage potential. Maybe strong at too many things for the cost.
shmi15 - A lot of strength with cloaked/parry/MA. It will prove quite difficult to challenge a squad of these without dealing with cloaked first. MA is a little concerning, I can see there could be many ways that could create undesirable interactions. I think if that ability were re-written it would be a stronger character.
Caedus - The most out-of-the-box interpretation for this contest, I like that you are challenging what a perfect grunt unit might look like, and it works for me. It seems that you were going for a "suicide rush" kind of unit. I wonder if trigger defeat might be a more fitting ability than internal strife, as it doesn't cause them to pop currently.
ED - Versatility against non-diverse squads, and just a strong shooter on its own. Looks good. Seems interesting that it would not have any recourse against a snowtrooper swarm or Order 66 shooters.
GG - Definitely takes me back to playing KOTOR... with the same solution to dealing with them: wack them with a lightsaber! Woe to anyone who comes unprepared to deal with stealth/cloak. I love the simplicity.
Surf - I like the utility and itemizaiton. Concussive is a awesome idea, but I don't understand how taking damage would avoid a concussive stun. Otherwise I like it as a quite strong, standalone trooper that relies on explosives/aoe.
1st. Jen - GG makes a good point, but the rest of the character is strong enough IMO to net 1st.
2nd. Surf
3rd. Its all tossed up between GG, Caedus, and Sithbot. But I'll put Caedus for originality.
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1. Oakel
2. Gandalf
3. Shmi15
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3) SithBot
2) gandalfthegreatestwizard
1) jen'ari
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No problem Oakel! I always look at each piece as how it would fit in the game as some of these CCCs are inspiration for pieces that come out later and even become characters.
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So many entries and so few voters haha
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I think Jen wins this week by one vote?
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Yep that's my count too, congrats Jen and post up the next one
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