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Insight on Cost Calculation? Options
ArgonNaito
Posted: Monday, March 8, 2021 4:49:27 PM
Rank: AT-ST
Groups: Member

Joined: 7/24/2020
Posts: 54
Hello there.
I don't actively play this game. I found it kinda late and only last year I even realised the excistance of this site.
However I have enough miniatures to go around and have used the battle rules many times when playing Star Wars tabletop RPGs. That being said I tend to create non-canon characters to fill my stories and I generaly like to make combinations with the available abilities, which I have even more available now since I found bloomilk.

My main problem is the calculation of the cost of said custom characters. No matter what I rarely feel satisfied with the cost I give them, fearing that they might be too cheap for their power level. The few calculators I found did not help me. Apart from them not covering many things, they also don't seem to be very accurate when I compare the guidlines with existing figures' costs.
At this point my go to is finding a figure somewhat close to the one I create and then scale it, but even so it doesn't always feel right.

The current character that torments me is the following:
HP:90, Def: 18, Atk: +6, Dmg: 20

Unique, Melee, Double Atk, Shien Style, Telekinetic Combat, Disruptive, Predictive Reflexes
and a custom ability
I'm Not a Jedi!: This character cannot join or be part of a squad with 2 or more characters with any Force Power (excluding this one) or that contains a higher cost character with a Force Rating. If this character would roll to oppose a Force Power or is forced to reroll due to an enemy spending Force points, he adds +6 to the roll.

Force 3, Force Renewal 1, Master Speed, Force Leap, Force Push 3


Even without the custom ability I am not certain. Initialy I had him compared to Jaina Solo, Galactic Hero due to the amount of abilities (and initially having almost identical force powers) but of course their stats are completely different and I don't think he is a character that costs 100+ points.

Because this is getting big I'll get to the point.
All of you that make custom minies, how do you calculate the cost? Any insight on that would be helpful.
Also if you would be so kind, could you please help me find the cost for the character above?

(If there is already an open discussion about this and I didn't find it please excuse me. Also excuse any errors. English isn't my native language.)
adamb0nd
Posted: Monday, March 8, 2021 10:31:33 PM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 9/16/2008
Posts: 2,302
There have been some write ups on general guidelines for point costs. I don't recall where those articles or ideas live, I just recall having seen some attempts many years ago. the original creator would ballpark stats. If he wanted a character to be better or chase, he'd go low. And sometimes he just under or overestimated a piece's potential.

I look at similar characters when designing, like you did, and then go with my gut. It never feels good but you gotta finish the piece.

When calculating, try and consider faction and commanders he has access to. If hes rebels, this guy can get up to a +8. In fringe, +14. Way different.


As for your rpg character, you did a good job with the ability ruling. He definitely is not a 100+ piece. But he could flux in price depending on faction. It's a really hard call. He had very powerful abilities, but his stats aren't that high. Depending on his faction, we would also know what characters we are locking out with his not a jedi ability to more accurately price.
ArgonNaito
Posted: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 3:20:32 AM
Rank: AT-ST
Groups: Member

Joined: 7/24/2020
Posts: 54
Thank you for your answer Adam.

The character is indeed a fringe, set in the legends Old Republic era. Since I do not make competitive squads, rather story driven, his ability is meant to cut him of joining any Republic or Sith squads when they use their heavy pieces and focusing mostly in being in a full Fringe team. He might be part of a Mandalorian squad but I don't think there is a direct synergy there especially since I don't recall any appropriate CE.

So that's it I guess. Finding the value of that synergy is what troubles me most.
Thank you anyway. One last thing, would you say that this character is in the range of 60-70 since he is a Fringe? Higher? Lower?
adamb0nd
Posted: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 6:51:08 AM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 9/16/2008
Posts: 2,302
If I had to guess, he'd be in the high 40s. Maybe 55 max. I say that because his squad building limitations and base stats don't push him to that higher cost. I think 60+ is way too high and would be overcost
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 7:28:51 AM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
I was going to say cost 43. The base stats are low. Melee attacker with those base stats indicate about cost 30. But Disruptive, Shien, and Telekinetic Combat are all huge. 55 wouldn't be out of the question.

Power 6: Cost 55
Power 7: Cost 51
Power 8: Cost 47
Power 9: Cost 43
Power 10: Cost 38

(ballpark estimates)
imyurhukaberry
Posted: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 7:53:34 AM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator

Joined: 5/8/2008
Posts: 2,220
Location: East Coast
Adam's response was pretty spot on.
However, keep in mind that each ability has it's own cost associated with it. For instance, Double Attack is pretty standard, but Telekinetic Combat is going to add quite a bit. Disruptive is a huge cost adder as it is handed out very limited in any faction but Rebel. Fringe characters with it are quite costly....and rare. (for a purpose!)
Shien Style will also add a bit, as it is better than just Evade.
Your base stats are sub par so that helps reduce the base cost.
Having an ability that is a negative helps offset some of the bigger cost ones. Your custom "I'm Not a Jedi" is more negative than positive, so that helps.
The force powers are pretty standard. Push 3 adds a good offensive ability and cost along with it.
So...for comparision...take a look at Darth Traya. She is pretty close in stats and abilities. And she's only 36 pts.
Add in Disruptive, which you'd have to look at Talon Karrde or HK-47 (like I mentioned, it's rare in Fringe pieces...and should never appear on a non-unique Fringe!).
Without boosts to other characters, you look at the commander effects that give bonuses to your character. The more possible boosts, the more points you add on.
Power creep is what it is and you'll have to compare the older figs to the newer, keeping in mind the newer figures were designed to be used in place of most of the older ones. So to be competitive, you'll have to design around the newer ones.

Given all the above, I would say you're probably around the 50-55 point range for your character. (IMO)

Then play test with actual characters and see how it works out. If you find your character is the first piece to go every game, or if it's impossible to defeat every game, then you'll have some tweaking to do.

Have fun! BlooMilk
ArgonNaito
Posted: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 8:08:38 AM
Rank: AT-ST
Groups: Member

Joined: 7/24/2020
Posts: 54
Yes I know his abilities are heavy ones. His stats are lower on purpose, exactly to offset him, not wanting to turn him on a completely one man army. I wanted him to be able to gain ground and survive mostly as a theme.
Originally I had him indeed at the scale of 40s so at least I feel better asking all of you about it, seeing that I wasn't completely off.

I'll try some playtests indeed later.
Thank you for your replies. It has been very helpful.
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