Now this has been commonly played that it means shaper and scarification are the things nixed.

But the wording is odd.

Shaper changes BASE DAMAGE.

(glossary def for shaper):


However, scarification does not

(glossary def for scarification):


It technically doesn't change the printed damage.


Now I am 99.999% sure intent was to include scarification. It's clear Characters with Ritual Scarring can receive CEs to boost their attack and damage, and Shaper is definitely out.

I think the key intent in wording is from, and printed was actually used erroneously.


I believe what they meant by "printed" was anything that changes attack or damage, not actually changing BASE damage. Thus scarification is included as an SA that they don't benefit from.

now as to the word from and it's importance - this is my interpretation (both with how it has been commonly played, and intent from designers)

The from means that an SA on an ally (shaper, scarification) directly would directly change ("bonus" or otherwise) attack or damage. The SA on the ally gives a bonus to their allies.


As opposed to an SA giving out another SA, that alters damage or attack.

example -

Specialization on Zenoc Quah giving out Jedi Hatred. Even though specialization is an SA, it does not change allies damage or attack. It gives them an SA, which then changes THEIR OWN damage So in this case Czuklkang would be able to gain the bonus on Jedi Hatred (if all other restrictions are met obviously).



Thoughts?

I've had it explained to me that Ritual scarification does indeed not get rid of the attack and damage boost from the Scarification. It only blocks Shaper and Master Shaper from boosting damage. I think it would make a lot of sense if we changed it to also include Scarification.

Designer intent and how it's been played aside, Ritual Scarring doesn't stop Scarification; the explanation you have given is correct. There also doesn't seem to be a thematic reason for Ritual Scarring to stop Scarification, as they are two terms for the same thing.

This was the wording that QC provided back with epics to make it NOT work with and of the shapers or priests


So you could use the AAO to get cunning, or Zenoc to get the Jedi Hatred.

I'd be interested to read the discussion in the Epic design thread. Here's a layout of my understanding of the (somewhat murky) issues:

The glossary entries of Shaper +10 and Master Shaper establish a distinction for the purposes of critical hits between "bonus" Damage and "temporary increases to the printed Damage rating". The Damage boost provided by those two abilities falls into the latter category, while all other abilities provide bonus Damage (I can't remember off the top of my head if any other abilities specify that they affect the printed Damage rating). The glossary of Scarification does not say anything about counting as an increase to printed Damage, so I assume it is meant to work like normal bonus Damage; not multiplied by critical hits.

Ritual Scarring ignores abilities that "alter printed Attack or Damage ratings". It seems to me that the latter part was intended to refer to abilities like Shaper +10 and Master Shaper that modify printed Damage for critical hits, rather than all bonuses to Damage in general. It is unclear what kind of abilities might "alter printed Attack ratings". Master Shaper gives a +4 Attack bonus, but that's not described as an increase of printed Attack. Perhaps I am reading Ritual Scarring incorrectly, and it means all bonuses rather than just the ones that modify printed Damage for the purposes of critical hits. If that is the case, Ritual Scarring would exclude Scarification but not abilities received by Specialization/Camaraderie/etc for the reason Tim gave above. If I am correct about Ritual Scarring, to exclude Scarification, Scarification would need to be changed so that it affects the printed Damage rating, or Ritual Scarring changed so as to rule out all bonuses and alterations to printed Damage.

In his initial stat block he had 20 base damage and poison.

During the throwing around ideas stage

I suggested upping his att and base damage and also this:
Fully trained (is unaffected by allied special abilities that modify attack or damage stat)

At one point it was suggested at to include the Defense stat as well although it never made it onto any stat blocks.

Did some initial playtesting and this is what I reported at the time

Lah died alot. After discussing with our group it was determined that he should have a higher attack and more damage and have an SA that made him unaffecetd by the priest/shaper/etc.

This was partly because I believe those tests were Epic Dynamic Duo, and the idea was to have them balanced for Epic DD, regular 200 and also mass battles as well.

Then there were some more stat blocks discussed and none of them had anything about it.

I asked for it again:
I still think we need a line in there about him not being affected by shaper/master shaper/scarification etc.

In the next proposed stat block it was brought back as this

Ritual Scarring This character is unaffected by allied Special Abilities that affect Attack or Damage.

Then a bit later in design


Quote:
Ritual Scarring This character is unaffected by allied Special Abilities that affect Attack or Damage.

Am I reading this right? Do you mean, "This character ignores special allied abilities that alter its printed Attack and Damage ratings?"

Yes, I just cleaned up Jason's original wording a little, then left it for Chris to fix :).


Chris: In Ritual Scarring, I changed it from "special allied abilities" to "special abilities from allies" since the former technically made no sense in Glossary Terms.


This appears to be all the parts relating to ritual scarring.

From the rules committee: Characters with Ritual Scarring ignore special abilities from allies that alter its printed Attack or Damage rating. That means that those characters may not benefit from Shaper or Master Shaper. They may, however, benefit from Scarification and any other abilities that grant bonuses.

(From me: I don't remember hearing about the intent. I've always been under the impression that they could benefit from Scarification.)