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Looking for an official ruling here as I have talked to TINT and UrbanJedi and gotten different ideas that both seem logical...
I have twin attack and shooting at someone....after the first attack, the defender is able to move (rolling evade, teleport, etc, maybe even presumed dead? Also C-3po cloak if I miss my first attack) and hides behind a corner so he is out of line of site of my character. Would I get the twin attack even though I cannot see him?
I would say no which is one answer I got. However, going through resolving effects (https://www.swmgamers.com/SWM/Rules/ResolvingEffects.html) it seems that twin reverts back to step 5 which is after targeting occurs (step 2)...so it kind of seems like I could attack the defender around the corner without LOS.
On a side note, if you can make the twin attack, how would it work with a melee attacker? Say I attack once, teleport happens so he is not adjacent to me, would the twin attack still happen even though he isnt adjacent anymore? Because again, it doesn't seem like twin targets and is more so an automatic thing that happens
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My understanding (and I know you're looking for something more official, but in the meantime) is that Twin doesn't target per se, but the attack still has to come on a legal target. Like it doesn't ignore the restrictions of Melee Attack (someone can Counterpush a Melee Attacker and avoid the twin) or LOS, but it otherwise isn't optional. That said, there are LOTS of things that can get between the attacker and the twin (looking at you, Pheromones), and of course if the target dies after the first attack, we always say "Twin fizzles."
We will have to discuss this in committee, but that's my take.
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Sounds good...that would make the logical sense....but the fact that it reverts back to step 5 in the process seems like you almost could attack someone without LOS or regardless of any restrictions but I do not really even know. Interesting scenario here so thanks for the initial input.
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Ok, so this is what Joe had to say. Generally speaking, the target has to still be a legal target for the Twin to work. However, if there was a special condition that worked on the initial attack *like Throw*, the Twin also works in the same way.
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I do understand, but declaring legal targets happen at step 1 or 2. So I think you do not have to be a legal target on twin since you do not go back to step 1 with twin. So i think you can twin without LOS and after a counter push would be my interpretation...even though that is very counterintuitive.
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Well Melee Attack is not a targeting rule. It's a restriction on who can be attacked. It pretty much supersedes anything else.
I guess I get what you're saying about LOS, but I don't think it works that way.
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Okay I guess that makes sense if it supersedes everything....I do not think twin has to be a legal target though is kind of what I am saying but yeah the melee thing seemed like a stretch and feel it can be interpreted both ways. I think you can shoot the twin without LOS because targeting rules do not apply (occurs in step 2) as twin uses step 5 and beyond. Anyways thanks for the help Laura this is definitely a weird situation we have come across
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When I designed Rolling Evade nearly 10 years ago, multiple rules gurus told me Twin Attack wouldn't work and we've been playing it that way ever since.
If that’s not the case, the rules should be updated to reflect how we’ve played the game for the past couple of decades. Sometimes the spirit of the game should come first, not rigid adherence to complex rules.
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I 100% agree with DarkDracul of that’s how it should be. It got brought up in a game and neither of us had even heard of twin bypassing LOS/targeting, so we wanted some further clarification.
Some of these things obviously get very complicated and I want to make sure we are playing things right, especially when it comes to competitive games.
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16. Resolve Twin Attack by returning to step 5 and repeating the remainder of the process (except this step.)
5. Declare the attack, including combined fire, Careful Shot, Deadeye, and other abilities that must be declared before making the attack roll. The total bonus to attack, defense of the target, and possible damage (barring critical hits or later adjustments) should be declared and agreed upon before continuing.
In step 5 the enemy is referred to as a target (requiring los).
Therefore, even though Twin Attack does not target, you cannot declare a "Twin Attack" if the enemy is no longer a legal target (within los).
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Per the WotC faq under major max veers it says that you don’t get the twin if it is no longer a legal target
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Can't copy/paste right now, but this is explicitly answered in the WOTC FAW for Major Maximilian Veers.
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And then there are things like bombard gungan which break every know rule and make attacks do really funny things
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Thank you all! Yeah that was a tough one as I had never heard about it until a few days ago where it came up…then it happened again a game later. Crazy how that works. That answer makes a lot of sense and I feel like that’s how it should be
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Yes, thank you dracul and Urbans for tracking down an answer
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For anyone curious; Quote:
Major Maximilian Veers
Q: Can the character move before Twin Attack is used, and if so, assuming the character moves out of line of sight is the Twin Attack lost?
A: Yes, and yes the Twin Attack would be lost if the character is no longer a legal target for some
reason
.
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