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Pre Vizsla Options
Ukezwoll
Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 5:27:07 AM
Rank: X-1 Viper Droid
Groups: Member

Joined: 2/26/2009
Posts: 47
Location: Sweden
Pre Vizsla
Cost: 45
Faction: Mandalorian

Hit Points: 80
Defense: 19
Attack: 11
Damage: 20
Base: Medium

Special Abilities
Flight
Twin Attack
Lightsaber +10
Evade
Parry
Missiles 30


Design notes:
Should this guy be a commander or not? Well, I was not too impressed with the "command skills" displayed by Pre Vizsla in the Clone Wars episode. Also I felt the Mandalorians already had a lot of decent commanders and would be better served by the addition of a follower. Especially in the 35-50 range where the Mandalorians lack options and could use an alternative to Canderous Ordo. Hence I chose the follower route. Overall it is a fairly straightforward design. In the episode Pre Vizsla is both a melee and shooter character and I felt his design should represent both these aspects. Parry and Lightsaber represents his melee skills. To represent his shooter side I wanted some kind of ranged protection. I chose evade as this guy did not strike me as "covert" enough to warrant stealth or cloaked except for the the orders of Count Dooku to hold back. Twin attack means he plays differently from Canderous Ordo and trades firepower for mobility. Also Pre Vizsla benefits from the Mandalorian Commander instead of the generally more useful Mandalorian Captain which probably helps Canderous Ordo the most. With mobile attack Pre Vizsla could move adjacent to an enemy, Twin Attack for 30 damage and then move away as Flight allows him to avoid the AOO. Also he should work ok with both the Mandalores. A cost of 45 is only an approximate. To cost a character properly may be the aspect of design which requires the most hard work and unless one designs for implementation rather than for fun as in this case, I really don't know that it's worth it.
Darth Grievous
Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 5:42:19 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 12/12/2009
Posts: 271
Is it lightsaber+10, if so that means with Twin he can do 60dmg, flight evade and parry nearly makes him broken. I mean he wasnt that good was he?
carnorjax1
Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 6:02:49 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/22/2009
Posts: 697
Location: The Squall, Yinchorr
I would maybe make him more like this:

Pre Vizsla 39
Faction: Mandalorian
HP: 80
Defense: 17
Attack: 9
Damage: 10

SA:
Twin Attack
Flight
Lightsaber +10
Parry
Flamethrower 20

CE:
Allies with Death Watch in their name gain Flight and Missiles 20
Ukezwoll
Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 6:17:46 AM
Rank: X-1 Viper Droid
Groups: Member

Joined: 2/26/2009
Posts: 47
Location: Sweden
Darth Grievous wrote:
Is it lightsaber+10, if so that means with Twin he can do 60dmg, flight evade and parry nearly makes him broken. I mean he wasnt that good was he?


Yep, Lightsaber +10. He has only 80 Hp. If he wants to Twin Attack with the Lightsaber he would have to base the enemy. He will be close enough then that Evade probably won't do him much good and Parry only helps against Melee. Shooters will tear him up and if those 80 Hit Point last one round he'd have to consider himself lucky. This character would have to be very careful if and when he decides to base an enemy for the additional +10 damage. After all, with Evade he'll last twice as long. However, for a shooter his damage is not very impressive. Compared to Han Scoundrel for example his damage output is quite underwhelming.
Ukezwoll
Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2010 6:26:36 AM
Rank: X-1 Viper Droid
Groups: Member

Joined: 2/26/2009
Posts: 47
Location: Sweden
carnorjax1 wrote:
I would maybe make him more like this:

Pre Vizsla 39
Faction: Mandalorian
HP: 80
Defense: 17
Attack: 9
Damage: 10

SA:
Twin Attack
Flight
Lightsaber +10
Parry
Flamethrower 20

CE:
Allies with Death Watch in their name gain Flight and Missiles 20


I guess good enough if you want to go the Commander route. I think he's overcosted though, 10 points or so. There are no followers which would be made that great by his CE at this point. I would not play him for the CE. Also I don't think there are enough Mandalorian characters to support sub-factions yet.
Weeks
Posted: Monday, April 26, 2010 4:32:40 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 7/23/2009
Posts: 1,195
Id put his base damage at 10 lower his attack by 2 and give him cunning or opp to get to his extra damage. He can still do 60 that way. Id also drop parry thats a little much. The only piece with Evade and Parry is jarael she does base 10 damage has melee and doesnt have twin.

Mandos could use a piece with evade they have several with parry already and i think lightsaber +10 already shows he is good with a saber. If you drop parry you can also lower his cost by a bit maybe to 30-35 even. Thats what mandos could use their uniques are too expensive to field over just Guns/Scouts.
Ukezwoll
Posted: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 11:05:56 AM
Rank: X-1 Viper Droid
Groups: Member

Joined: 2/26/2009
Posts: 47
Location: Sweden
Weeks wrote:
Id put his base damage at 10 lower his attack by 2 and give him cunning or opp to get to his extra damage. He can still do 60 that way. Id also drop parry thats a little much. The only piece with Evade and Parry is jarael she does base 10 damage has melee and doesnt have twin.

Mandos could use a piece with evade they have several with parry already and i think lightsaber +10 already shows he is good with a saber. If you drop parry you can also lower his cost by a bit maybe to 30-35 even. Thats what mandos could use their uniques are too expensive to field over just Guns/Scouts.


Let's presume he'd get Opportunist +10 and lose Parry. That'd give him a damage output of maybe 2/3 of Dash RS. 10 more HP and +4 Def would make him a bit more survivable than Dash. In my mind that would still make him a shooter, with weaker damage output than Dash but the added option of basing the enemy for +20 damage. This would however require closing the distance and thus make Evade less useful. I don't see myself paying more than 30 for this, less shooty version of Dash. Possibly a cost as low as 25 might be more appropriate if it's supposed to be highly competitive, especially since it's a Mandalorian figure rather than Fringe as Dash. Still, since Pre unlike Dash also would have Flight and Missiles 30, 30-35 might be a reasonable cost. Overall this Pre Vizsla would very much be a ranged combatant though. And I don't really agree that the addition of the Lightsaber ability would on its own show he's good with a Lightsaber. The above version would in close combat be cut to pieces by a JWM, should he be foolish enough to attempt it. Also all the other Mandalorian melee fighters who has actually finished their training and thus acquired the ability to Parry would laugh at him. The Lightsaber would only be used in self defense and when an opportunity presented itself to cut down the weak.

Overall I think this would be a valid and fairly balanced option. Still it does not really represent the more powerful hybrid melee/shooter piece I was aiming for.

The comparison with Jarael is a good one, in particular I think it illustrates the survivability of the Pre Viszla with Parry and Evade. Jarael can no doubt survive a lot of attacks for a figure with a cost of 23. This does not mean a very good survivability for a figure with a cost of 45. In addition Jarael is actually more survivable than Pre because of her 3 FP which allows her to reroll those key saves. Pre Vizsla could not do that and his additional 10 Hit Points compared to Jarael does not compensate for the lack of FP in any way. Overall Parry and Evade would make Pre somewhat tough but not overly so and he'd need that to compensate for other shortcomings.

If we compare Pre to a similarily costed shooter like Han Scoundrel it becomes obvious that Han is by far the more capable. Cunning attack with Accurate shot allows him a better selection of targets and likely the Cunning Attack bonus if desired. The common twin at +11 for 20 damage of Pre can not compete. Obviously he'd need other qualities to compensate for this lack of offensive power to be as good as Han Scoundrel for his cost. And the Lightsaber ability alone does not cut it IMO, as this bonus would require a very vulnerable shooter to give up only real advantage and protection, range, to utilize. Missiles 30 is also not that amazing. It's an option which may at times be a bit more useful than the twin attack but not a tremendous boost overall. Parry would give Pre a better chance to actually use the Lightsaber bonus against tougher opponents.

.
HanSolo79
Posted: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 11:35:50 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/5/2010
Posts: 77
I like the idea of him being a Commander, and especially in respects to characters with the name Death Watch... it would make that piece an actual option in squad builds and since there aren't many pieces in the Mando faction they really need every one to be serviceable IMO.

I think if you dropped Evade, and added a CE that did something to boost the value of the Mandos with Death Watch in their name without a range limit, you could (IMO) keep him how you have him. I like your CE idea carnorjax1 but I would add this to it...

---Allied characters named Death Watch lose Internal Strife and gain Flight and Missiles 20---

I believe he could have this CE with his standard (for his cost) stats and special abilities since his CE would only effect one type of Mando piece; the Death Watch Raider obviously.
carnorjax1
Posted: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 11:52:25 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/22/2009
Posts: 697
Location: The Squall, Yinchorr
HanSolo79 wrote:
I like the idea of him being a Commander, and especially in respects to characters with the name Death Watch... it would make that piece an actual option in squad builds and since there aren't many pieces in the Mando faction they really need every one to be serviceable IMO.

I think if you dropped Evade, and added a CE that did something to boost the value of the Mandos with Death Watch in their name without a range limit, you could (IMO) keep him how you have him. I like your CE idea carnorjax1 but I would add this to it...

---Allied characters named Death Watch lose Internal Strife and gain Flight and Missiles 20---

I believe he could have this CE with his standard (for his cost) stats and special abilities since his CE would only effect one type of Mando piece; the Death Watch Raider obviously.


I thought about the losing Internal strife thing, but it seemed too much, but your right about the CE, it would give people a reason to use the Death Watch

Actually, it'd be cool if he had something like this: Splinter Movement(This character may benefit from commander effects, even if this character is a commander himself)
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