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Poll Question : what would weaken rebels most
Choice Votes Statistics
take riekan away 23 32.857142 %
take dodonna away 14 20.000000 %
take lukes snowspeeder away 1 1.428571 %
take the various hans away 0 0.000000 %
take a and e leia away 1 1.428571 %
other 2 2.857142 %
you dont care 29 41.428571 %

how to break those rebels Options
Boris
Posted: Monday, May 17, 2010 10:28:05 AM
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empirejeff wrote:
People still play the SS?


It went undefeated at the Owensboro regional in all 7 rounds, with a field of 30 players from six different states attending.
NickName
Posted: Monday, May 17, 2010 1:13:12 PM
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Boris wrote:
I want to chime in here for a second.


Just wanted to let you know that that huge post was on spot on pretty much beginning to end for me, and completely encouraging concerning your guys plan for addressing it in the semi-related topic of V-sets. What you come up with might not be perfect once it hits the real word, but the reasoning behind it seems sound. So thanks for sharing.
njarnagin
Posted: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 2:42:41 AM
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Jonnyb815 wrote:
I really think the vong should be able to steal or borrow limited CE's.


A special ability that steal's the commander effects of the other team? lol, yeah that would be awesome.
amsnow
Posted: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 3:49:42 AM
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a cool ability for v sets would be something like this


infiltrate (once per round you control how many characters your opponent activates, choosing between 1, 2 and 3)



just something to nerf dodonna san ozzel, maybe come up with a different adaptatiopn of this ability
DarthReeves
Posted: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 12:42:58 AM
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If you don't like Dodonna, then put an accurate shooting bounty hunter on him and kill him in the first two rounds, it's pretty simple folks.

If you don't like Rieken, then it becomes VERY simple: You run NR with disruptive from 2-3 pieces (Kyle, Han, etc) I shoot you, I evade, no you don't, sith spit!, yeah that's right you sit still and take my shots.
StriderRe80
Posted: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 1:44:48 AM
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DarthReeves wrote:
If you don't like Dodonna, then put an accurate shooting bounty hunter on him and kill him in the first two rounds, it's pretty simple folks.

If you don't like Rieken, then it becomes VERY simple: You run NR with disruptive from 2-3 pieces (Kyle, Han, etc) I shoot you, I evade, no you don't, sith spit!, yeah that's right you sit still and take my shots.


sorry even if you have accurate shot your opponent is not just going to walk dodonna out there to get shoot.

Evade does not bother me too much becasue your opponent is going to fail sooner or later.

dodonna does keep the rebels alive with there low hit points to be able to activate all of your big hitters at the end and then with mobile you wont be able to get a shoot at them in the beginning of the round. really you just have to be able to rush the rebels quickly and safely as possible to be able to take them out. dodonna has become something of a crutch piece now a days since every rebel or new republic build have them. Need something on a cheep piece like "never tell me the odds" to be able to nerf it a little
LoboStele
Posted: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:37:23 AM
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What about an ability like this: "Enemies within 12 squares may only be activated if at least one other piece is activated during the same phase, unless a Commander Effect or Special Ability prevents them from doing so or they are the only character left to be activated in the squad."

Basically, put it on something cheap, and something with low HP, but word it so that it would have to be run near the front of the squad in order for it to work. Would make it so that opponent's would have to activate two pieces if they wanted their melee beatstick to be able to attack. Isn't a perfect solution, and perhaps encourages tempo control squads to play too defensively. Just another idea though, and perhaps something to tweak a bit.

I still feel that the Sith, Vong, and Mando factions have bigger problems to deal with than tempo control though. Dean, I see your point now about the difference of being out-activated by 2 vs. by 10. I still think that point has a minimal enough impact that removing Dodonna from the game entirely isn't necessarily the right answer. I still think Rebels and NR without Dodonna will come out on top of Sith/Vong/Mandos in most matchups, but it's because of other factors, not Dodonna's influence. OR suffers from some similar issues too, but Lord Hoth's CE helps with it a bit.

As others have pointed out, Rieekan is quite obviously not the biggest issue. On the one hand, it's caused Melee to be a bit more prevalent in the game, which is fine with me, honestly. And most NR squads are running around without Wedge, so there's further proof that Evade/Mobile isn't the be-all-end-all. Of course, I think both Luke RC and Ganner obviously have a bit to do with that too.
EmporerDragon
Posted: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 1:12:51 PM
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My idea wold be along the lines of a Fringe piece with the stats of the Muun Tactics Broker but instead have an ability like Frenzied Pace (All commander effects that modify activations are disabled for all players. Characters with disabled commander effects are still considered to be commanders for all purposes.).
nerfherderpictures
Posted: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:36:56 PM
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Wysten wrote:
Aye, I personally don't like Dodonna, as he basically enables the rebels to shoot first. Unless theres extreme movement breakers, the oppoment can spend the time twiddling his thumbs while the oppoment hikes across the table, only unlike San Hill he can switch and start activating 2 figures with impurity. I just think his premise is a case of a figure making the tactican rather then the other way around.

Either way, even if you don't need him, he's always good reguardless on whether you use him as a fancy door opener or waiting till the other guy runs out of activation so he can pepper him. You can run a squad without him, but he doubles your squad size when needed whenever he wants to.


As for Mandos, Sith, Vong and O.R.

The former is stuck as a very one track faction, high cost, high quaility non-uniques is outdated by the game itself by Yobuck, any squad that can out activate them. They are cool, just difficult to use and outdated by the times.

Sith are probably the most competive in my opinon simply because of Sith Sorricery, able to move 12 spaces and half a 1/2 chance of activating any guy in sight, with the guys with Master of the Force having 3/4 of activating a none force senstive and being effective against force users as well. Thats pretty extreme activation control on another level. While the Sith themselves lack, the fringe provide the rest of the firepower they need.

Vong are the same as Mandos, very one track faction that is fragie. Most factions can simply crush them by going for the senstive, well grouped bits. They were never made to be useful, just to be a gimmic faction. :/

O.R have just been permently overpriced with no sense of unity, just like the OR infact XD


the vong are actually a tier 1 faction in the hands of a player who knows how to use them.
Jonnyb815
Posted: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:59:37 PM
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Vong Tier 1 I dont think so. I even know how to run vong somewhat. They just get shot to death by shooters(mandos and Rebel cannons)
engineer
Posted: Thursday, May 20, 2010 5:24:51 AM
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nerfherderpictures wrote:
the vong are actually a tier 1 faction in the hands of a player who knows how to use them.

Are you this type of player who knows how to use the Vong as tier 1?

Please shoot me a PM on swmgamers.com with a time you would like to play a game on Vassal.

Thanks in advance for teaching me how to play the Vong. :)
Wysten
Posted: Thursday, May 20, 2010 7:06:25 AM
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nerfherderpictures wrote:


the vong are actually a tier 1 faction in the hands of a player who knows how to use them.


No, I don't believe they are from what I can see.

In a game predominately dominated by shooters and very fast melee, they are a juicy target of pieces that must stick together to function correctly. As many competive maps favour shooters, the single map that they will dominate on is not enough to call them teir 1. The soft commanders will have most probably fallen by the time they get there.

Can they be tough? Yeah, but only if you are not running or playing a optimalised squad. Player skill can go so far, but having the finest tools obivously produces better results in the hands of a equally skilled player, and Vong are incredably predictable and countered by staying out of melee range. (Which is 6 squares, the throwing stuff is 12 squares, but again, compared to range gunfire, much easier to avoid.) and squishing their senstive stuff (Accurate Shooters, Running a Yobuck at them, or just by raw, directed gunfire.) and by the time they get to you, they should be a mess. Their problems go way beyond simply Donnoda.
Sithborg
Posted: Thursday, May 20, 2010 7:08:56 AM
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The restricted map list is as balanced as it can get, and doesn't truly "favor" either.

I think there are a few competitive Vong options, though most of them are based on Nom.
Wysten
Posted: Thursday, May 20, 2010 7:14:14 PM
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But you do get maps that favour shooter over Melee. The difference being that Vong will probably do fairly well on a melee based map, but would suffer on a long ranged map. Though I guess they have an annoying gimmic *Nom bombs, art is a blast.*
billiv15
Posted: Friday, May 21, 2010 2:21:29 AM
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Wysten wrote:
But you do get maps that favour shooter over Melee. The difference being that Vong will probably do fairly well on a melee based map, but would suffer on a long ranged map. Though I guess they have an annoying gimmic *Nom bombs, art is a blast.*


Um, which map are you referring to? I don't see any heavy range favored maps of any kind on the list. Shooter squad players have been choosing any of them based on personal preference and claiming shooter superiority on it, but I hardly see any consensus on it. Further, several of the so called shooter maps are ones that I've personally used with Vong over the years. I really question your point here. I don't see Rancor pit (a shooter favorite) or Jedi Temple as particularly problematic for the Vong (and those seem to be the most commonly chosen "shooter maps" on the current list - although as I said, there is hardly a consensus on it).

Further, every squad can be favored or not favored on a map, depending on the matchup. You seem to be arguing that this is more so with the Vong. Personally, I don't see that as their issue at all. The problems with the Vong are many other things, not the map list. The map list actually benefits them a great deal compared to in the past. Also, a shooter map should have 0 issue for Nom based vong squads. In fact, these squads are perhaps better on them. Now, dealing with disruptive in those cases, is a much bigger issue - and that's my point, it's other problems, not the maps that keep the Vong out of being tier 1.
Jonnyb815
Posted: Friday, May 21, 2010 6:13:40 PM
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Well I still think overall the snowspeeder was the problem.I feel it was the best mini from 08-09 till the new map,point change and other factors.Yes I think it was better than Boba BH,Dod,thrawn. I would put the speeder all most on the same level as GOWK. Even without tempo control it was one of the best minis around. I understand the maps and new rules have evened out how it is used. I think dod and Rieekan are a combo together. Second thing I think that is a problem is the mind set that people have when they are playing him. When I play tempo control I just make them act there main piece early and hope that was enough to win the game. Odds are your only going to be able to get one mid or early round attack doing bait or setting up odd things vs tempo vs 30% of players. I really think using bait and other types of minis can change the mind set vs around 70% of players. I really think Dod is only problem at the top levels and even then there are things that can help you out. I used Arica at the chicago regional as a attacker but mainly as a tempo controller. She gave me the act lead in most of my games and a lot of the time the door control too. Yodabuck and the lancer can do this but at greater chances. You can do other things like giving up 27 points for 40 points. You have to give things up that are worth value. Dod is a problem and needs to be fixed. Doing bait or movement or other tricks/minis is really hard for the lesser factions so most of the tricks that I know how to give me a better change vs tempo control dont really work with the lesser factions.
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