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billiv15
Posted: Friday, July 2, 2010 1:26:05 AM
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The rule is for customs, not for multiples of the same figure. You can still have 50 DS with one card, provided you aren't using custom BDs.

I'm not sure what Dean's stance will be on changing the custom rule post WotC to be honest, but you are only considering one of the reasons it was put in place. Only one part was to protect WotC's right to sell minis. The other reasons were to protect the secondary market sellers and the players who had made investments in the pieces. Mice might seem innocent enough, but the concern was that this could easily extend into anyone making a custom of say Darth Bane out of a Sith Lord, printing a card off the internet and never buying a thing. It goes well beyond mice.

So if I had to guess, I'd say Dean won't change it. The precedent for V-set figures is already set as well - we will be using something along the lines of the AT-AT Driver figure that WotC released. You won't be able to use just any old mini for V-sets in tournaments. You will either have to use the suggested mini, or a custom of it. But the rule of not being confusing to your opponent will apply as well. (So for example if we made a Darth Bandon and suggested the Sith Apprentice - if you ran a squad of DB and 5 SAs, you will have to carefully denote which is which for your opponent's sake - which is no different than the current rules for multiple NUs anyways). There obviously will be more flexibility in this than normal, but Dean has said he isn't interested in making major changes to anything WotC did in the past, so I suspect he will keep the rule in place going forward.

In other words, I wouldn't go cutting up your mice any time soon. If you do, all you will have is the same number of mice you had before that are tournament legal, just now they will only have 1 on the base :) Just because some people don't want to pay for more mice, isn't reason enough to make an exception to a rule that is there to keep things fair for all players (in terms of customs).
Echo24
Posted: Friday, July 2, 2010 1:29:26 AM
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Disturbed1 wrote:
Ok, so the 'you have to have a card' is nice, and I understand it being in the floor rules, for when WotC was still making the game. obviously they wouldnt have wanted players just cutting up their minis, which keeps them from needing to buy more, which lowers WotC profits.

However, since the game is done now, and "Gamers is running things", then couldnt they just get rid of that part, or edit it to something along the lines of you must have at least one card for the figures. So you could bring 4 mice if you wanted, but since they all have the same stats, you only need one card...

Also, in regards to this 'you must have the right number of cards' rule....so, if I wanted to play 50 Battle Droids at Gencon in the 200, then I would have to bring 50 Battle Droid cards? I couldnt just use one card, in light of them all having the same stats?


Technically yeah, they could make that change. But the rule wasn't even made by WotC in the first place. It's a DCI rule, which was made by Dean Miller. Dean doesn't work for WotC, he was just the guy in charge of the DCI floor rules or SWM. He will continue to be in charge of the floor rules for Gamers. Since it's his own rule, I don't see it changing. For one thing it maintains the collectible aspect. By allowing customs to count like that, you would be de-valuing the figures that people got legitimately. Also, a lot of people enjoy the collectible aspect of the game and the difficulty in gettig rarer pieces. When you open an IE booster and see a mouse it's exciting, making it so that you could just use custom mice makes that less exciting and less fun.

And if you want to run 50 battle droids you only need 1 card, unless any of the battle droids are customs. The 1 card per figure rule only applies if you're using customs, otherwise you could just use 1 card for multiple nonuniques (as long as you have an effective way to distinguish them).

EDIT: Ninja'd by bill Tongue
Disturbed1
Posted: Friday, July 2, 2010 1:45:12 AM
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Bill: Thanks for the answer. Reasoning is pretty sound.

Echo: DCI is WotCs ranking system. So technically, yes, Dean did work for WotC, just indirectly. I realize Dean was the one who put that rule into play, but I would imagine most rulings had to go through the higher ups, and if they had noticed a big downswing in sales thanks to a rule like that being excluded, i think they would have quickly remedied the mistake.

Anyway, since we have successfully derailed this thread:

If you dont have many/ any people borrowing from your collection 2-4 ought to do well enough, unless you want to be able to play the Gha/ Lobot combo and bring in 10, in which case 10 is the magic number, lol.
Echo24
Posted: Friday, July 2, 2010 2:42:52 AM
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Disturbed1 wrote:
Bill: Thanks for the answer. Reasoning is pretty sound.

Echo: DCI is WotCs ranking system. So technically, yes, Dean did work for WotC, just indirectly. I realize Dean was the one who put that rule into play, but I would imagine most rulings had to go through the higher ups, and if they had noticed a big downswing in sales thanks to a rule like that being excluded, i think they would have quickly remedied the mistake.

Anyway, since we have successfully derailed this thread:

If you dont have many/ any people borrowing from your collection 2-4 ought to do well enough, unless you want to be able to play the Gha/ Lobot combo and bring in 10, in which case 10 is the magic number, lol.


That would be a good point, except this rule was made in the last floor rules update. It's relatively a brand new rule. Even mouse droids were around (and in high demand) for almost a full year before the rule was made. I really don't think WotC paid nearly ad much attention to the details of the game (including the DCI floor rules) as you are giving them credit for.

Regarding the original topic, without the Gha Nachkt combos, I'd say 6 mice is a good amount. Without Gha you can bring in 6 with Lobot, or you could have a few in your main squad and a few coming in with him. You could probably make due with 4, less than that would probably limit you somewhat.
Disturbed1
Posted: Friday, July 2, 2010 6:30:11 AM
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Your probably right, I most likely am giving them more credit for paying attention than they deserve. I also dont think there was that high of a lvl of custom work opposed to buying the product going on. What I mean is if instead of buying tons of boosters, trying to get a Revan, if all those fanboys had just made a custom of their own, and WotC could see a significant drop in sales, then they probably would want something done about it.

How quick it gets done is something else entirely.

Also, as Ive said bout the mice, Ive got 4, and on the occasion that my wife gets to play in the local tournies as well, we just make sure that both of us arent intending to run them. Most of the times it results in "here is my squad, so dont pick any of those pieces. Pick out an idea, and I'll help you build it."
TreebeardTheEnt
Posted: Friday, July 2, 2010 10:55:58 AM
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I currently have 7 and find that to be a good number. With Gha Nachkt you can bring in 9 activations (7 mice and 2 other 3pt figs).
Jonnyb815
Posted: Friday, July 2, 2010 11:05:52 AM
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I dont think you need more than 15. 15 would be max thats if your playing kaz.
I say 10 are less is good other than that. If your playing seps you can mix which I feel is the better way to go.

Doogle126
Posted: Friday, July 2, 2010 5:13:58 PM
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Echo24 wrote:
The "cutting up mouse droids" issue was adressed in the last floor rules update. If you use any customs (like a mouse droid with just one mouse) you have to have an official card for each. So you could cut up your 2 mouse droids and make them 4, but you will need 4 cards to play them all.

On the main topic, I only have about 7, but one of the guys in our group has 30+, and he lets whoever needs them borrow some. If he weren't around, I'd like at least 12 or so to best run the gha + lobot combo.


wait, doesnt the floor rule says though that you only need 1 card even if you have multiple minis?
Echo24
Posted: Saturday, July 3, 2010 1:02:34 AM
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Doogle126 wrote:
Echo24 wrote:
The "cutting up mouse droids" issue was adressed in the last floor rules update. If you use any customs (like a mouse droid with just one mouse) you have to have an official card for each. So you could cut up your 2 mouse droids and make them 4, but you will need 4 cards to play them all.

On the main topic, I only have about 7, but one of the guys in our group has 30+, and he lets whoever needs them borrow some. If he weren't around, I'd like at least 12 or so to best run the gha + lobot combo.


wait, doesnt the floor rule says though that you only need 1 card even if you have multiple minis?


The key is "if you use any customs". If you are using all official pieces, just 1 card will do. If you have customs though, you need 1 for each.
greentime
Posted: Saturday, July 3, 2010 1:26:24 AM
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Echo24 wrote:
but one of the guys in our group has 30+, and he lets whoever needs them borrow some.


I'm that guy, and the most that have ever been "in circulation" on a given week is ~15. So if you have that many you should be good for yourself and your buddies, too. If multiple people are going the Gha+Lobot angle you would need more, obviously.
Disturbed1
Posted: Monday, July 5, 2010 12:03:24 AM
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Echo24 wrote:

The key is "if you use any customs". If you are using all official pieces, just 1 card will do. If you have customs though, you need 1 for each.


The question then is 'what counts as a custom'? Say for example I do end up cutting the 2nd mouse piece off each of my 4 mouse droid bases, so I can have 8 for friendly play/ scenario/ etc.

If I show up to a tournament with my 4 mice that are actually ON the Mouse Droid base, do I need 4 cards? Since they are on the right base, and obviously still look like mice, I would think Id only need one.

If I wanted to run all 8, I could understand saying I had to have 8 cards (which I dont), so 4 of them would be illegal.

Thoughts/ Offical Decisions?
Sithborg
Posted: Monday, July 5, 2010 12:24:58 AM
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Pretty much with all custom decisions, it is up to the individual judge.
qvos
Posted: Monday, July 5, 2010 2:34:59 AM
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I have 7 mds and wish I had 20. Its never enough Mds for meFlapper
saber1
Posted: Friday, July 9, 2010 12:48:22 AM
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greentime wrote:

I'm that guy, and the most that have ever been "in circulation" on a given week is ~15.


And this is what frustrates me about Mouse Droids. By your own admission, you've only ever needed half of the MDs you own, yet you (like many others I suspect) keep them all anyway. Meanwhile, your fellow players who would very much like to get a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th mouse are stuck facing payment of $8-$12 or trading multiple R/VR just to get a stinking uncommon. I'd like to see the community get a little more reasonable in regards to the Mouse Droids. I have no problem buying or trading for them, but I can't be the only one who refuses to do so at the hyper-inflated "value" that they currently have.

Ok, I've vented now and feel a bit better.
urbanjedi
Posted: Friday, July 9, 2010 3:59:18 AM
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This isn't really any different than any other supply/demand SWM issue. Boba BH, Revan, Cad Bane, Boba Fett and Aurra Sing back in the old days for overpriced VRs and what about when ARC troopers were $8-$10 a piece and they were only that low because they were so many points and only marginally playable (same with Nightsister Witches).

As long as mice stay "good" they will continue to be highly priced. Might almost be better off buying a cheap case of IE and trying to turn the VRs to break even and net yourself 2 mice.
AdmiralMotti89
Posted: Saturday, July 10, 2010 3:03:43 PM
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saber1 wrote:
greentime wrote:

I'm that guy, and the most that have ever been "in circulation" on a given week is ~15.


And this is what frustrates me about Mouse Droids. By your own admission, you've only ever needed half of the MDs you own, yet you (like many others I suspect) keep them all anyway. Meanwhile, your fellow players who would very much like to get a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th mouse are stuck facing payment of $8-$12 or trading multiple R/VR just to get a stinking uncommon. I'd like to see the community get a little more reasonable in regards to the Mouse Droids. I have no problem buying or trading for them, but I can't be the only one who refuses to do so at the hyper-inflated "value" that they currently have.

Ok, I've vented now and feel a bit better.


http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/19450662/Mouse_Droid,_not_sure_I_understand_the_buzz?pg=1

A good discusion from back in the day ^

Also, I noticed that Zayne-e's posts are under Tirade's name on there. I'm curious to see what that's all about. Glitch?
Crashh Niner
Posted: Saturday, July 10, 2010 5:04:26 PM
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The one thing that seems to be said the most, and is the best point is, how many are you lending out at a time? If you dont have that problem, then you probably dont need anymore
Echo24
Posted: Sunday, July 11, 2010 1:29:44 AM
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saber1 wrote:
greentime wrote:

I'm that guy, and the most that have ever been "in circulation" on a given week is ~15.


And this is what frustrates me about Mouse Droids. By your own admission, you've only ever needed half of the MDs you own, yet you (like many others I suspect) keep them all anyway. Meanwhile, your fellow players who would very much like to get a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th mouse are stuck facing payment of $8-$12 or trading multiple R/VR just to get a stinking uncommon. I'd like to see the community get a little more reasonable in regards to the Mouse Droids. I have no problem buying or trading for them, but I can't be the only one who refuses to do so at the hyper-inflated "value" that they currently have.

Ok, I've vented now and feel a bit better.


This attitude is pretty common and equally ridiculous. First of all, you're right in that greentime hasn't ever needed ALL of his mice, but the implication that he's just hoarding them is silly. He has them all to LET OTHER PLAYERS BORROW THEM. We have a tournament in about an hour and a half, and I have 7 mouse droids, and will need 13. Guess who I will ask to borrow those other 6 mouse droids from? greentime.

Secondly, I know for a fact that greentime paid around $10 for almost every mouse he has. He got some from just buying a lot of IE boosters, but then went online and paid the normal price for them. You aren't the only one who refuses to pay the going price for them, but there are people who ARE willing to pay the price. greentime bought a bunch of mouse droids, and you're going to complain about that? Hey, I'm frustrated that I don't own a private jet; everyone who owns more than 1 private jet should give me one. I mean, seriously, do you know how expensive those things are? I'll never pay that much! Someone should just give one to me.

urbanjedi also makes a good point about other high priced VRs. I don't own a Cad Bane. I didn't buy a lot of GaW, so I'm still missing 3 or 4 of the VRs, and Bane is one of those. I think the price he goes for online is too high for a piece that I would probably never seriously play (I'm not a big fan of him). So should anyone who has more than 1 Cad Bane just give me one? No, that's stupid. I'll either pony up the money to get one or get by without.
saber1
Posted: Sunday, July 11, 2010 2:25:03 AM
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To prevent another heated discussion like that in the link above, I'm stopping here. I've said my piece and let it stay at that. My parting point is that we consumers, through our actions, (largely) control prices.
Demosthenes
Posted: Sunday, July 11, 2010 6:05:19 AM
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I'm one of those people who refuses to pay market price for a Mouse Droid. I got my first Mouse Droid free from the friend who got me into the game, then I pulled one in a booster, bought my third for $5 off Miniature Market a couple months ago, then pulled my fourth in a booster. Then, a week ago I found a UK-based online store that had a Mouse Droid listed for 1.49, so I jumped at the chance to pick that up. Turns out they had two Mouse Droids, so I got both of them. Ended up paying $8 total for both plus shipping. Hopefully I can find those last 4 Mouse Droids (as I'd like to have 10) on the cheap. =)
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