In the Rebel Elephant thread, it seemed to be generally agreed that Bastila is overall good for the game, but that she goes too far in nerfing CE-based squads. I don't think anyone is suggesting having a direct "cancel Bastila" ability/power, but there should be ways to mitigate the effect. Rebels were hurt pretty badly by her, but arguably Mandos were hurt even more. Death Shots/Accurate/Twin - all lost to Bastila. And minus GGDAC/Whorm, Separatists are also hurt pretty badly.

Here are a few suggestions we've heard so far...

Special Abilities - one clear way around Bastila, but I for one don't think using SAs as CEs should be the norm. There are already enough of those. SAs should be more targeted or synergistic effects, but if it's clear that the relationship is commander/follower (ahem, Battle Droid Officer), then it should be a CE. I am a fan of Sithborg's suggestion that SAs are the way to boost the Big 4 Rebels, though. Since their relationship is one of peers rather than commanders/followers.

Force Cancel - a boardwide version of Force Absorb/Defense that would cost enough FPs that Bastila could still use ABM, just not all the time.

SA that makes certain CEs unsuppressable - could be for an adjacent commander (just one commander) or for followers within 6 (so the figure would be in the fray and could be killed).

And we already have Vong/Ysalimiri as a counter for Vong/Imperials.


Thoughts? Any other suggestions? Anyone care to argue that ABM doesn't keep Rebels/Seps/Mandos out of tier 1 and/or care to argue that ABM doesn't need any additional counters?

How does Lancer vs Bastila play out? I guess she can be hidden easily on some maps, and she can have a Seer protecting her, but the Lancer does have a shot at getting to her and stopping Battle Meditation.

I am in the position of playtesting rebels against OR a fair bit. It was quite a challenge trying to make non-CE based squads. The rebels can be pretty decent without CEs, you just need to think about it. I am sure those of you who are much better than me can figure out good non-CE squads even better than I can.

I'll answer the Lancer on Bastilla question. The Lancer player should play the whole gamer (or nearly) being disrupted. Bastilla is easy to hide/protect from a lancer and with only 1 chance needing to hit a 19 (5 or 9 depending on BDO or not) it isn't a sure thing. That being said, depending on the squad the lancer player can be ok because the OR has 50+ of its points hidden away keeping ABM going. It then comes down to the builds. If there are lots of Seers and beef it will tip toward the OR player. If there are more Shooter types it will start to tip toward the Lancer Player as you can keep out of LOS and still strafe 24 and yo-yo back to safety and the shooters don't have the HP to stand up to it. Most of the shooters in the OR have 80 or less HP so 4 hits and they are dead and no way to prevent the damage once they are hit.

I just do not see what the big issue is with her, her disruptive ability cost 3 force points a time and means she not going to be using force points for anything else. She is not going to be able to use it every round or even every other round. Sure, it is useful and she certainly is playable and one of the better OR characters but every other faction with the exception of vong also has its useful and certainly playable characters that IMO are better then her.

"Thoughts? Any other suggestions? Anyone care to argue that ABM doesn't keep Rebels/Seps/Mandos out of tier 1 and/or care to argue that ABM doesn't need any additional counters?"

Well i don't do competitive play, but have won and lost against Bastilla using all of those factions. Which is how it should be. So IMO she does not need a counter. Except Seps, as of yet I have NOT won or lost against them using the new Bastilla. Mainly just out activated. I still think though that this is down to other factors such as bad dice rolling and a few silly misjudgments in tactics. She is not unbeatable though certainly not in casual games anyway.

The 10 Damage is big yes I agree. still not unbeatable though.

Totally agree. She is tough. Not unbeatable.. But definately a game changer !

I tried the avoiding her strategy, but she can effectively use ABM uninterrupted from round 2 until round 7 if you activate her appropriately. If she is outactivated, then you can get a shot or 2 in at the end of round 3 and 5, but it is hard.

I feel that her squads are quite melee heavy, so Mace is quite a good option, but now she has Atton on her side, that makes things a bit more difficult. But it is great to see OR back in this game.

I would hate to see a v-set piece/SA/CE invented just to counter another v-set piece, in this case
Bastila.

I think the bigger issue is getting past the enemy's squad alive than getting through the doors...