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A certain sith lord in Scum and Villiany (Spoilers) Options
Weeks
Posted: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 5:41:52 PM
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As a designer on S&V I'm curious how everyone likes Lord Krayt. He is the first beatstick that has a tempo control CE and his own movement breaking all in one package. I saw a lot of comments in the Spoilers thread about him so I wanted to give him his own thread for discussion.
DieAndBeMetal
Posted: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 5:49:00 PM
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Krayt is boss. He will be one of the only high cost pieces that is legitimately competitive. That's my opinion anyway.
adamb0nd
Posted: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 6:15:01 PM
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Weeks wrote:
As a designer on S&V I'm curious how everyone likes Lord Krayt. He is the first beatstick that has a tempo control CE and his own movement breaking all in one package. I saw a lot of comments in the Spoilers thread about him so I wanted to give him his own thread for discussion.



I think you did a fantastic job. It fits the characters flavor, he looks brutal but not broken, he has utility outside of damage. He looks competitive but requiring of skill to use effectively. I give him a 10.

He almost didn't get crab armor... What was your other defensive option during creation?
kezzamachine
Posted: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 6:35:38 PM
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The acid test for me is whether or not I look at a character and instantly want to play him. I instantly wanted to play Krayt.

(Does he 'count as Darth Krayt'?)
Mando
Posted: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 6:48:33 PM
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I love him a lot. For something that cost's 100+pts I'd expect a 120 dmg dealer. I really like the idea of a chain explosion where he can transfer into 2 keldors and then unleash on someone. I was also thinking of maybe trying the newest defel pirate with him since they cost less and have SD 20. Add in Niles Ferrier and you have SS and they only cost 9pts and can shoot at +8 (+12 with cunning). He's got some unique builds to him and he's competitive since he's got that really nice CE. And 23 defense is not easy to get past.
Weeks
Posted: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 6:57:17 PM
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adamb0nd wrote:
Weeks wrote:
As a designer on S&V I'm curious how everyone likes Lord Krayt. He is the first beatstick that has a tempo control CE and his own movement breaking all in one package. I saw a lot of comments in the Spoilers thread about him so I wanted to give him his own thread for discussion.



I think you did a fantastic job. It fits the characters flavor, he looks brutal but not broken, he has utility outside of damage. He looks competitive but requiring of skill to use effectively. I give him a 10.

He almost didn't get crab armor... What was your other defensive option during creation?


Well I was on the team. Don't give me full credit for a group effort. Boris took charge of his design. I don't recall anything besides armor for defense. He might of had Block at some point though.
Weeks
Posted: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 7:02:51 PM
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Mando wrote:
I love him a lot. For something that cost's 100+pts I'd expect a 120 dmg dealer.


20 Base + Advantages + Rage + Triple = 120
saber1
Posted: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 7:09:12 PM
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I think this is a great piece. He captures the character well, though technically he shouldn't have armor. I can overlook that because it fits the character and gives him a defensive ability that is needed at his cost. On paper, he looks to be competitive. Time will tell. All in all, I think the team hit a home run.
fett19
Posted: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 7:10:50 PM
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where can i see his stats?
gwek
Posted: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 7:14:51 PM
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I think he's a fun, well-crafted piece overall, but I'm not sure that I see why people are calling him competitive (more on that in a minute).

He represents and interesting (and thematically appropriate) shift in the Sith paradigm: many Sith pieces have high damage output but relatively low defenses, which helps the faction overall benefit from an aggressive strategy. There's a lot about Krayt that emphasizes patience instead.

I don't love the Affinity, although I understand it. Yes, added diversity is something the Sith can use. Yes, it makes sense from a story point of view. Still, I'm a bit of a faction purist. I love SOME Affinity, but this is a little more than I like to see (but not enough to make me not enjoy the character).

So, thumbs up on a fun, interesting, and innovative character.

But is he competitive? I don't know. He's a powerhouse, definitely, so in the right hands he's clearly pretty potent. To me, the real value of a piece on the field boils down to "Can he dish out more than his cost?" (Sure, synergy, support, etc, also plays a huge factor, so that's a vast oversimplification, but I still hold to the core idea...).

Krayt costs a lot. And his hit points are relatively low. Yes, high defense, but there are tons of ways around that, and for much cheaper than 114 points. Transfer Essence is a great trick--awesome, really--but every time you use it, your increasing the cost to defeat an opponent (and that's assuming you can position things correctly). I know a lot of folk are saying he's much better than GMLS (and I largely agree), but I also think he suffers from one of GMLS's biggest weaknesses: both characters can essentially destroy any single opponent at will... but (poor positioning aside) can really only tag one opponent per activation. It's great that Krayt can pump out 150 damage, but much of that damage is often going to be overage.

On one hand, what Krayt has over GMLS is that he can run and hide and recover; on the other, the potential disadvantage is that Krayt needs others to really fire on all cylinders.

Ultimately, though, it doesn't much matter what I think of how competitive he is. He's definitely a fun character, and I'm willing to bet a lot of players will try to see how he fares in competition... and most, if not all, of them will be better players than I am. :) I look forward to seeing how he fares.
Sithborg
Posted: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 7:37:41 PM
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I don't think he is going to be burning up the tourny scene. Something to keep in mind, double Transfer Essence means he can have a brutal hit an run potential. Tossed in with some cheap Mice, and he can do some damage before you have the chance to do damage to him.

Of course, Uggie Bombs are a bit fun as well.
kezzamachine
Posted: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 7:55:53 PM
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Shouldn't it be: (20 Base + Advantages + Rage) x Triple = 120 ...mathmatically speaking?
gwek
Posted: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 8:52:34 PM
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My math apparently included Bandon.
AudriSampson
Posted: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 8:53:35 PM
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I was one of the playtesters for him and OMG he is a fun piece. I can't wait to rock him at a regional next year.
urbanjedi
Posted: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 11:01:33 PM
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You can't transfer into mice so not sure what you would need mice for.
Echo24
Posted: Wednesday, June 6, 2012 5:25:42 AM
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gwek wrote:
I think he's a fun, well-crafted piece overall, but I'm not sure that I see why people are calling him competitive (more on that in a minute).

He represents and interesting (and thematically appropriate) shift in the Sith paradigm: many Sith pieces have high damage output but relatively low defenses, which helps the faction overall benefit from an aggressive strategy. There's a lot about Krayt that emphasizes patience instead.

I don't love the Affinity, although I understand it. Yes, added diversity is something the Sith can use. Yes, it makes sense from a story point of view. Still, I'm a bit of a faction purist. I love SOME Affinity, but this is a little more than I like to see (but not enough to make me not enjoy the character).

So, thumbs up on a fun, interesting, and innovative character.

But is he competitive? I don't know. He's a powerhouse, definitely, so in the right hands he's clearly pretty potent. To me, the real value of a piece on the field boils down to "Can he dish out more than his cost?" (Sure, synergy, support, etc, also plays a huge factor, so that's a vast oversimplification, but I still hold to the core idea...).

Krayt costs a lot. And his hit points are relatively low. Yes, high defense, but there are tons of ways around that, and for much cheaper than 114 points. Transfer Essence is a great trick--awesome, really--but every time you use it, your increasing the cost to defeat an opponent (and that's assuming you can position things correctly). I know a lot of folk are saying he's much better than GMLS (and I largely agree), but I also think he suffers from one of GMLS's biggest weaknesses: both characters can essentially destroy any single opponent at will... but (poor positioning aside) can really only tag one opponent per activation. It's great that Krayt can pump out 150 damage, but much of that damage is often going to be overage.

On one hand, what Krayt has over GMLS is that he can run and hide and recover; on the other, the potential disadvantage is that Krayt needs others to really fire on all cylinders.

Ultimately, though, it doesn't much matter what I think of how competitive he is. He's definitely a fun character, and I'm willing to bet a lot of players will try to see how he fares in competition... and most, if not all, of them will be better players than I am. :) I look forward to seeing how he fares.


I think this is an exceptional analysis of him, and I agree with all points. ThumpUp
Mando
Posted: Wednesday, June 6, 2012 6:01:06 AM
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Weeks wrote:
Mando wrote:
I love him a lot. For something that cost's 100+pts I'd expect a 120 dmg dealer.


20 Base + Advantages + Rage + Triple = 120


Thats what i was refering to. I probably could have worded it better, but what i meant is that for his cost he does the right amount of damage we'd expect to see, that being 120dmg. He's not overpowered for his cost, and will it nicely for the faction.
Hinkbert
Posted: Wednesday, June 6, 2012 7:34:55 AM
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I think he can be competitive and will be in some regional squads (maybe even give Sith a win). Force absorb could be an issue though since he needs to attack an unactivated piece to use advantageous, but a character with absorb (say Mace or Corran) can keep him in place and then beat on him.

Still, I like the shift towards making more higher cost pieces since they will most likely lead to new types of squad design and that's excellent and keeps the game fresh.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Wednesday, June 6, 2012 8:59:37 AM
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Better than GMLS, but at that cost level, is he better than both Maul, Sith Infiltrator and Darth Zannah combined? They're cheaper than him. He might beat some good squads, but I don't see him being a Tier 1 piece.
Darthbane53
Posted: Wednesday, June 6, 2012 12:17:31 PM
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I had a problem play testing him some things, I forget exactly what changed but that heal 60, coupled with another bad guy in the set and his heal combined with krayts just made him impossible to kill, but I would like to use him. And I have the COOLEST mini for him that I made ThumpUp
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