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So, Darth Bane used to be a tier 1 piece. I think his major down fall are his cost, and his lack of defense. He used to be quite the threat in a 100 pt squad with a hand full of ugnaughts, but shooters have just come to dominate so much these days that he wasn't really feasible.
With the release of marka ragnos spirit, he now has access to force illusion. Is that enough for him to make a comeback? Or, are there just too many good options for a cheaper cost to bother ever dusting him off again?
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I lost to a solid Ragnos/Bane/Bandon/ExarDFS squad in Tile Wars. And Bane was the first to drop, but double SS is pretty powerful with Exar DFS on the board, and 120dmg vs adjacent enemies is solid. Outside of TW though, I don't think he'll be Tier 1 again. I guess he might get some specific help in the V-Sets, but I think it might be more likely that we just get a new Darth Bane altogether.
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I haven't played with Bane too much, but the key to bringing him back is to rethinking how to play him. Sith Sorcery with MOTF 2 is really powerful. It's helpful that he has 30 base damage, which is a strength he has over Naga Sadow.
Also remember when he was the top tier. 100 pts as of COTF. He didn't have much competition, other than maybe JWM swarms. He was never that great over 100.
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I think it's great that there are multiple styles to play and that each game (Standard, Tile Wars, Dynamic Duo, etc.) all have their own meta.
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Tile Wars is about his only use. He is just too overcosted to be competitive. Hopefully a new one is made in the near future, as he is one of my favorite sith, as well as a favorite of most in our community.
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He needs a cost cut. Much like Satele, he needs to be mid 30s now. :p. kidding.... Or am I? ;)
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markedman247 wrote:He needs a cost cut. Much like Satele, he needs to be mid 30s now. :p. kidding.... Or am I? ;) I feel like this piece is still salvageable though. While he could easily be replaced with a reboot like GMLS or ZAM, I feel like thats kind of a cop out, when there really is a solid mini there that could just use a direct bonus to come back to the game. Not sure what or how, but something like Rapport (Bane costs -10 points) and crab armor 10 seems like it would be both fitting and enough to make him tier 1 again. Bane at 72 points with crab armor 10, and access to illusion would make him very viable, IMHO.
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adamb0nd wrote:markedman247 wrote:He needs a cost cut. Much like Satele, he needs to be mid 30s now. :p. kidding.... Or am I? ;) I feel like this piece is still salvageable though. While he could easily be replaced with a reboot like GMLS or ZAM, I feel like thats kind of a cop out, when there really is a solid mini there that could just use a direct bonus to come back to the game. Not sure what or how, but something like Rapport (Bane costs -10 points) and crab armor 10 seems like it would be both fitting and enough to make him tier 1 again. Bane at 72 points with crab armor 10, and access to illusion would make him very viable, IMHO. GMLS and Zam are totally different. The Zam piece is a new piece, not a direct replacement. Same thing with the new Revan. On the other hand, GMLS was directly replaced. Basically the same piece with a lower cost and new abilities. GMLS2 bothers me. Zam and Revan don't. Darth Bane is an important enough character to warrant a new version with a new feel (like Revan). The new version should have a different role and play differently from what exists already. Salvaging the old Bane could also work, but it doesn't have to be either/or, as long as the new piece doesn't directly replace the old one. Salvaging the old piece could be accomplished with a big Rapport, just like the old Revan could be salvaged that way. There seems to be a lot of opposition to that idea, though. Making boosts work is harder because most boosts also help other pieces that have a better cost/power ratio.
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FlyingArrow wrote:adamb0nd wrote:markedman247 wrote:He needs a cost cut. Much like Satele, he needs to be mid 30s now. :p. kidding.... Or am I? ;) I feel like this piece is still salvageable though. While he could easily be replaced with a reboot like GMLS or ZAM, I feel like thats kind of a cop out, when there really is a solid mini there that could just use a direct bonus to come back to the game. Not sure what or how, but something like Rapport (Bane costs -10 points) and crab armor 10 seems like it would be both fitting and enough to make him tier 1 again. Bane at 72 points with crab armor 10, and access to illusion would make him very viable, IMHO. GMLS and Zam are totally different. The Zam piece is a new piece, not a direct replacement. Same thing with the new Revan. On the other hand, GMLS was directly replaced. Basically the same piece with a lower cost and new abilities. GMLS2 bothers me. Zam and Revan don't. Darth Bane is an important enough character to warrant a new version with a new feel (like Revan). The new version should have a different role and play differently from what exists already. Salvaging the old Bane could also work, but it doesn't have to be either/or, as long as the new piece doesn't directly replace the old one. Salvaging the old piece could be accomplished with a big Rapport, just like the old Revan could be salvaged that way. There seems to be a lot of opposition to that idea, though. Making boosts work is harder because most boosts also help other pieces that have a better cost/power ratio. I agree 100% with this. And I think the way of making boosts works lies in camaraderie.
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I played Bane at a recent 100pt tourney at the local shop and went 2-1. One of the games did come down to the final init though, and the game I lost I got obliterated, but he is still pretty decent in 100 pts.
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adamb0nd wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:adamb0nd wrote:markedman247 wrote:He needs a cost cut. Much like Satele, he needs to be mid 30s now. :p. kidding.... Or am I? ;) I feel like this piece is still salvageable though. While he could easily be replaced with a reboot like GMLS or ZAM, I feel like thats kind of a cop out, when there really is a solid mini there that could just use a direct bonus to come back to the game. Not sure what or how, but something like Rapport (Bane costs -10 points) and crab armor 10 seems like it would be both fitting and enough to make him tier 1 again. Bane at 72 points with crab armor 10, and access to illusion would make him very viable, IMHO. GMLS and Zam are totally different. The Zam piece is a new piece, not a direct replacement. Same thing with the new Revan. On the other hand, GMLS was directly replaced. Basically the same piece with a lower cost and new abilities. GMLS2 bothers me. Zam and Revan don't. Darth Bane is an important enough character to warrant a new version with a new feel (like Revan). The new version should have a different role and play differently from what exists already. Salvaging the old Bane could also work, but it doesn't have to be either/or, as long as the new piece doesn't directly replace the old one. Salvaging the old piece could be accomplished with a big Rapport, just like the old Revan could be salvaged that way. There seems to be a lot of opposition to that idea, though. Making boosts work is harder because most boosts also help other pieces that have a better cost/power ratio. I agree 100% with this. And I think the way of making boosts works lies in camaraderie. Who are you going to make with it though? New Zannah? The first one is really good and was made recently New Huntress? Same thing. I guess Kas'im could work, but wouldn't you rather have a Kas'im that boosts all Sith bladefighters? A new Bane would be the best way to do it IMO. Try and keep the Original useful but still make the new one good (ala Atton Rand/Jaq Rand)
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I have a weird idea: a reverse versatility. Let's say a new Bane is made but, it isn't at damaging as the original and costs mid-50's, yet is more defense oriented. The match continues but you lose half-HP or less. At that point, you make a decision, do I want the Immovable Object Bane or the Unstoppable Force Bane. Basically, he Hulks out. You can bring in the old Bane at the HPs when the switch is made and at the original cost. Note, that this unit, at the point in time the switch is made, you cannot heal him past the ceiling (half the original hp's of the newest Bane) so you can't go back to 200 HPs if the original was 140.
Don't all face palm at once.
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FlyingArrow wrote:adamb0nd wrote:markedman247 wrote:He needs a cost cut. Much like Satele, he needs to be mid 30s now. :p. kidding.... Or am I? ;) I feel like this piece is still salvageable though. While he could easily be replaced with a reboot like GMLS or ZAM, I feel like thats kind of a cop out, when there really is a solid mini there that could just use a direct bonus to come back to the game. Not sure what or how, but something like Rapport (Bane costs -10 points) and crab armor 10 seems like it would be both fitting and enough to make him tier 1 again. Bane at 72 points with crab armor 10, and access to illusion would make him very viable, IMHO. GMLS and Zam are totally different. The Zam piece is a new piece, not a direct replacement. Same thing with the new Revan. On the other hand, GMLS was directly replaced. Basically the same piece with a lower cost and new abilities. GMLS2 bothers me. Zam and Revan don't. Darth Bane is an important enough character to warrant a new version with a new feel (like Revan). The new version should have a different role and play differently from what exists already. Salvaging the old Bane could also work, but it doesn't have to be either/or, as long as the new piece doesn't directly replace the old one. Salvaging the old piece could be accomplished with a big Rapport, just like the old Revan could be salvaged that way. There seems to be a lot of opposition to that idea, though. Making boosts work is harder because most boosts also help other pieces that have a better cost/power ratio. +1 to all of this I'm not sure how we could get rapport for revan since the new revan would always be used if that's the case. But I do like the idea of having a piece with Camraderie (give Darth Bane orbalisk armor), synergy (a +2/+2 boost to Bane's att/def) and Rapport -10 for Bane. I haven't read the Bane books yet, so I don't know of a character that would have helped him so much, but this would be a lot more preferable that scraping the old Bane in favor of a new one. The old one is good, its just been victimized by power creep for too long.
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sigh
He was victomized more by the switch to 150 and 200 pt formats.
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Mando wrote:I'm not sure how we could get rapport for revan since the new revan would always be used if that's the case. But I do like the idea of having a piece with Camraderie (give Darth Bane orbalisk armor), synergy (a +2/+2 boost to Bane's att/def) and Rapport -10 for Bane. I haven't read the Bane books yet, so I don't know of a character that would have helped him so much, but this would be a lot more preferable that scraping the old Bane in favor of a new one. The old one is good, its just been victimized by power creep for too long. You would give Rapport to only the original Darth Revan, not all versions of the character. It could go on a new Malak, for example: Rapport (A character in your squad named Darth Revan costs 20 less.) Where 20 is whatever number makes Darth Revan costed as competitively as the new Revan is. Such that it's an actual decision about which one to use. At a level where half the message board screams it's not enough and the other half screams it's too much. (Because nobody would ever say it's just right.  )
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Bane just needs redone. By the time you give him the synergy he would need to be good, your going to invest around 120 points. Better off just starting fresh and giving him a new take. The Prophet has spoken.
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I wouldn't mind seeing a new piece called Darth Cad Bane Skywalker. The Mary Sueiest Mary Sue that ever Mary Sued.
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R5Don4 wrote:I wouldn't mind seeing a new piece called Darth Cad Bane Skywalker. The Mary Sueiest Mary Sue that ever Mary Sued. You forgot Darth Revan in that fruit salad.
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Do you think the desire for boosting the original bane is silly, or is this a sigh in memory of days long past?
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markedman247 wrote:R5Don4 wrote:I wouldn't mind seeing a new piece called Darth Cad Bane Skywalker. The Mary Sueiest Mary Sue that ever Mary Sued. You forgot Darth Revan in that fruit salad. That's a different piece entirely. General Darth Fett Revan Shan on Winged Gundark. 
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