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SWM Community Help Needed??? Options
pastorbudwine@mac.com
Posted: Sunday, January 20, 2013 7:11:32 PM
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I recently read jedicartgrapher's post about Map Pack five and the strain of continuing making maps and it got me thinking about the future of the game. We have been relying on a rather small group of people to keep this game going and I wonder if they are getting burned out as well. My question is, are there places in the SWM community that could use a few warm bodies to help share the load of keeping this game alive for years to come. I don't want to see this game die anytime soon (especially with new movies on the horizon) and I am willing to pull my weight keep it going. I have a feeling I am not the only one who is willing to do a few tasks here and there to help keep things going.

So to those in Charge what can we do to help?
Sithborg
Posted: Sunday, January 20, 2013 8:52:54 PM
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The main thing, playtesting. We can always need more quality playtesters. Especially those willing to try out multiple factions. Good suggestions are considered, if not always acted upon.

As for other ways of the actual production of the Vsets, we pay attention. If I had to give up being in charge of the rules, I know of 3 people who I think could do a fine job at it. If you have the qualities to help with some of the less fun aspects of the game, I'm sure you have been noticed.

There are other various ways to go. I know that there is a new map that will be going up on swmresources by a new mapmaker. So a loss of Jedicartographer is a big loss, there is someone else who may be able to increase the map availabilty and variety of our game. This is a hobby, let your creativity fly. Come up with something new.

Lastly, keep the fun alive. While we will never have major turnouts again, I'm of the opinion that Gamers to be mainly cyclical in nature. Even those that swear off the game may come back. Don't get discouraged if there is no playgroup near you now. It can always come back.
adamb0nd
Posted: Sunday, January 20, 2013 11:51:26 PM
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Sithborg wrote:
The main thing, playtesting. We can always need more quality playtesters. Especially those willing to try out multiple factions. Good suggestions are considered, if not always acted upon.

As for other ways of the actual production of the Vsets, we pay attention. If I had to give up being in charge of the rules, I know of 3 people who I think could do a fine job at it. If you have the qualities to help with some of the less fun aspects of the game, I'm sure you have been noticed.

There are other various ways to go. I know that there is a new map that will be going up on swmresources by a new mapmaker. So a loss of Jedicartographer is a big loss, there is someone else who may be able to increase the map availabilty and variety of our game. This is a hobby, let your creativity fly. Come up with something new.

Lastly, keep the fun alive. While we will never have major turnouts again, I'm of the opinion that Gamers to be mainly cyclical in nature. Even those that swear off the game may come back. Don't get discouraged if there is no playgroup near you now. It can always come back.


The only person i have to play with is my gf who is brand new to the game. We only play casual, and 150 max, as she is easily overwhelmed by all the abilities an pieces. Does this kinda of play tester help you, or are you only looking for more 200 point competitive players?
corranhorn
Posted: Monday, January 21, 2013 5:17:50 AM
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I'm willing to playtest...I'm in a similar predicament to adamb0nd, though. I've got a few friends that I play with fairly regularly, but they aren't really competitive with their squad building in many cases. Would that still help you? (I could always ask them to design to a really good squad).
pastorbudwine@mac.com
Posted: Monday, January 21, 2013 6:47:34 PM
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I would love to play test the one time i tried i got only rebels and I have very little rebel pieces throw some mando's, OR or sith my way and I will play test all day long
Jedicartographer
Posted: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 12:04:38 PM
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In order for any game to thrive, it has to be treated as a full time job or business. Coming up with new characters and pieces is fun and developing that kind of stuff is fun. It’s all very exciting, and understandably something to be very proud of. But it had to be more from the get go. There has to be marketing and advertising, there has to be ways to sell a "dead" game to new players. You have to find clever ways of making something thrive that people have lost interest in.

How would I do it personally?

Move the big game out of Gencon; find a smaller independent convention that would kill for a gaming group of 40 or 50 people to come.

Tutorials on customization, appeal to peoples creative side.

Treat new cards as a product you are selling. Make them a little prettier, brighter, treat the card as not just a stat card, but a pretty thing people want to have. I don’t mean to say that the Vset cards are bad, but they are the only tangible product besides the maps that are coming out, so they should SHINE.

I recently did a survey on my last Kickstarter drive. Out of about 100 participants, maybe 7 or 8 of them still played the game competitively; most of them use the maps at home, or use them for the RPG. I found this astounding. So why are we designing a game based around a handful of events played all around the same time of year? I believe the future of this game depends on moving away from the Meta a bit, NOT ABANDONING IT, but moving away from it a bit. Start moving toward scenario games, or a game that relies on card as more than just a stat card. Maybe a card based game that uses miniatures.

I believe, and I've said this for years, the game needs a new set of rules for mass combat or epic play.

The future of star wars miniatures is not in new miniatures but in publications, actual tangible products. Scenario books, collectible style cards, and maps.

Another challenge; tangible prize support. Maps are cool, but they really aren't blowing anybody's skirt anymore. So coming up with creative ways to get new stuff out to people is tough. Everybody should be able to go to a monthly event and get something. Trust me, if I knew that a new map from me every month was going to get people out of their houses and playing this game in bigger numbers, I'd make the time to make it happen. Perhaps a monthly exclusive character on a really nice stat card or perhaps 2 new characters in some sort of scenario pack.

I could think of a million things that we could do, but it involves effort, and time, and it involves people being serious about viewing this as work. And it involves people realizing that the competitive game is in the vast minority now, and there are probably droves of Star Wars fans at home who want to get into something fun, cheap and social.
I am a Star Wars fan first and a gamer second, probably 3rd of 4th actually. I am convinced that most of the people who played this game or WOULD play this game are like me. They want a way to play with SW toys without getting made fun of.
So, find people who want to run this game as a non-profit organization, and who have the time, and I imagine you will see a little bit of a comeback.
Jedicartographer
Posted: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 12:08:24 PM
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Sithborg wrote:
There are other various ways to go. I know that there is a new map that will be going up on swmresources by a new mapmaker. So a loss of Jedicartographer is a big loss, there is someone else who may be able to increase the map availabilty and variety of our game. This is a hobby, let your creativity fly. Come up with something new.


I have an apprenticeBigGrin I have a HUGE bank of objects and floor textures. getting my guy up to speed won't take long. Making maps is the fun part though, it's all the crap you have to deal with afterwards. Us gamers, we really do complain alot about the stupidest things, and I have a little bit of a low tolerance for BS.
Sithborg
Posted: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 12:19:21 PM
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Jedicartographer wrote:
Sithborg wrote:
There are other various ways to go. I know that there is a new map that will be going up on swmresources by a new mapmaker. So a loss of Jedicartographer is a big loss, there is someone else who may be able to increase the map availabilty and variety of our game. This is a hobby, let your creativity fly. Come up with something new.


I have an apprenticeBigGrin I have a HUGE bank of objects and floor textures. getting my guy up to speed won't take long. Making maps is the fun part though, it's all the crap you have to deal with afterwards. Us gamers, we really do complain alot about the stupidest things, and I have a little bit of a low tolerance for BS.


It's a miracle I'm still here with what this site put me through.
pastorbudwine@mac.com
Posted: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 4:11:07 PM
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I agree with JC it is going to take some work to keep SWM going and even more work to see the game have some momentum again that would bring in new players. I love seeing deals on ebay for SWM but at the same time it breaks my heart because I know it means that someone is getting out of the game. This is what I would like to propose, a series of community based projects that could help grow and even change the face of the game. Here are a few Ideas that I had most of which JC has already expressed.

1. Artwork on V-set Cards
I can't tell you how much time I spend looking at Wiki for pics of these characters when I do Customs and it would be nice to have a reference on each card but I can't draw to save my life but we have plenty of talented people here at bloomilk. plus I like what JC said, I think it would be a good idea to make these an art piece as well as stat cards. The cost should be the same seeing how most places just charge for color or no color. We could produce a recommended minis list to go along with each set and make it easily printable with pictures for easy reference.

2. scenario games
The first time I ever played SWM was when KOTOR came out. My local game store did a Boma game on the Taris Under City Map. I was hooked from that day on. With the V-sets Micro Sets it would be very easy to do some sort of Scenario based on those pieces. I would be more than willing to try to put some thing together for the new micro set, and if someone like JC could work up some artwork and we could get it printed on card stock we could produce the Scenarios like WOTOC did there for a while. It would even be awesome to make some scenarios that would work with the new map packs as well. I could see this helping to bring new life to the game.

3. Prize Support
We have a very large group of talented people here on bloomilk, and with the V-sets Custom making has soared. I have have seen several peoples customs and some are even better than WOTC. It would be great if we had a group of people who would be willing to make customs as prizes. Myself and Engineer Both do modeling using Hirst Arts Moulds. and enjoy making Trophies for different Tournaments. Engineer has the ability to make lots of Trophies fast, I tend to focus on making larger detailed pieces. Currently Darph Nader has asked me to do a large king of the ring trophy. If we knew who was willing to make customs and other prizes (at cheap prices) we could offer great prizes for our community.

4. Rules and Game Play Adaptations
I agree with JC it would awesome to have different types of games we could play with our minis. Mass Battles, and other Game types would add new flavor to a game that I absolutely love. Chriscook and I worked on a 3D multilayered 1 on 1 Jedi Battle game that has promise.

I would be willing help or even lead some of these projects I see no reason why one person needs to take it all on themselves. I would love the opportunity to work with the Vset designers and even Jedicatographer if he we can convince him to stick around in one form or another. I would love to hear other peoples Ideas on how we can continue to move SWM forward.

This is by no means a jab at the guys who took it on themselves to continue the game with the V-sets. I love all that they do and how they continue their work for years to come
Sithborg
Posted: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 4:24:24 PM
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1. How are we going to be able to comission 72 original pieces of artwork for the cards. We can't use what is already published, as that really is going to push us over the line, legally. Why should the document for recomended minis be online only? The pictures we use are easy reference, for those of us who don't have the time for customs.

2 & 4: These have always been more fan driven. Those in charge don't really care if you create unique scenarios. Honestly, SWMResources may be the key to organizing certain ones. Dynamic Duos was a format WOTC adopted, that was created by one of the players. Same with Tile Wars and Epic Duos. If its good and catchs peoples attention, it will get support, to an extent.
corranhorn
Posted: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 4:36:54 PM
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Sithborg wrote:


2 & 4: These have always been more fan driven. Those in charge don't really care if you create unique scenarios. Honestly, SWMResources may be the key to organizing certain ones. Dynamic Duos was a format WOTC adopted, that was created by one of the players. Same with Tile Wars and Epic Duos. If its good and catchs peoples attention, it will get support, to an extent.


To build on what Sithborg is saying, anything beyond having players design scenarios around the mini sets and post them online (I'd be up for that) would really require resources that are better used somewhere else. ting them into new map packs would be extremely difficult.


By the way, any chance your store still has that copy of the Taris undercity map? Tongue
pastorbudwine@mac.com
Posted: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 4:43:42 PM
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corranhorn wrote:

By the way, any chance your store still has that copy of the Taris undercity map? Tongue


Sorry I don't live there anymore and I highly doubt they do
corranhorn
Posted: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 4:49:02 PM
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pastorbudwine@mac.com wrote:
corranhorn wrote:

By the way, any chance your store still has that copy of the Taris undercity map? Tongue


Sorry I don't live there anymore and I highly doubt they do


No worries, I was joking.
Voren_Chalco
Posted: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 4:52:01 PM
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As far as customs go (about the only connection I have to the game right now), Dimetrodon already championed a Custom FAQ here a while back. I suppose having a series of tutorials with pictures (like Ironlightsaber's on the old WOTC site) featuring VSet pieces would be nice. Maybe when I have the time again...

For prize support, I might be tempted if I wasn't all the way over here in Australia. 'Cheap' is kinda out of the question with international postage.
pastorbudwine@mac.com
Posted: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 5:12:02 PM
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Voren_Chalco wrote:
For prize support, I might be tempted if I wasn't all the way over here in Australia. 'Cheap' is kinda out of the question with international postage.


You might be surprised I got a few minis for Buffacon from Bigsy. it cost me 10 dollars in postage for three minis He is in Denmark.
Jedicartographer
Posted: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 6:25:02 PM
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Sithborg wrote:
1. How are we going to be able to commission 72 original pieces of artwork for the cards? We can't use what is already published, as that really is going to push us over the line, legally. Why should the document for recommended minis be online only? The pictures we use are easy reference, for those of us who don't have the time for customs.

2 & 4: These have always been more fan driven. Those in charge don't really care if you create unique scenarios. Honestly, SWMResources may be the key to organizing certain ones. Dynamic Duos was a format WOTC adopted, that was created by one of the players. Same with Tile Wars and Epic Duos. If its good and catches peoples attention, it will get support, to an extent.


Response to point number 1. Definitely not saying an artist needs to be commissioned for 72 pieces of art. And you don't necessarily need to use official or copyrighted images. There are plenty of artists out there, creating FAN ART who will let you use their fan art as long as you aren't profiting off of it, my league posters are a perfect example of that. You just gotta tell these guys who we are and what were doing with them. Most of them are really cool about it. Furthermore Lucasfilm is well known for letting fans create all sorts of stuff under the Star Wars banner as long as it’s not for profit, how many SW fan films are out there? How many of them are actually pretty blasted good? As far as the recommended proxy pieces out there, I will be so bold as to say it's not necessary at all, and 7 V-sets in anyway, lets be real, you’re kinda running out of minis anyway. I think customization should be encouraged. I think the people out there coming up with ways to turning Heroclix and other pieces into compatible SW characters out there, are a completely underused resource.


2&4. I stand by my statement. If you put an emphasis on nice professionally done publications such as scenario books, your fan base will grow. You find a way to incorporate Star Wars fandom, and gaming into a league, people will show up.

Legalities: In order to maintain this legally, complete financial transparency is vital. All the money needs to go towards the game and the league. Every extra dime goes to printing more stuff. Were not selling anything we take donations, its no different than what you do now.

I know enough people out there that would love to step up and take a stab at continuing this game in a different direction. I'd hate to splinter the community as a whole, but I know plenty of people who have walked away from the game that really wouldn't need allot of nudging to come back.
.
Jedicartographer
Posted: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 6:30:50 PM
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The only really big hurdle that can't be jumped through, some people don't care either way, because it's just not official. :-(
Those people are lost for good unfortunately.

surf_rider56
Posted: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 6:39:36 PM
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... quick side note on customizing; besides SWM's, DDM's, and Heroclix, try Horrorclix and Mage Knight mini's. Some good stuff can be mined there, especially the Mage Knight's, where I've found some good stuff for Jedi/Sith.

Cheers
SignerJ
Posted: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 7:21:35 PM
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First of all, I would be fine being a playtester. Unfortunately, I'm literally the only person in my area who plays SWM, so I'd end up using VASSAL with myself. That said...


I would most definitely support what Jedicartographer is saying, and I would love to help. I strongly believe that what he is suggesting is what is needed to grow the game again. I know that I'm not real big on the competitive scene -- again, no one plays anywhere near me. So I love scenarios. Scenarios are really great for playing by oneself, or with friends. They aren't as serious, they are more fun-oriented games. Publishing official scenario books would be great. I'm always willing to help with whatever I can, and I personally love designing scenarios, even if I'm not at the best at it. I'm sure that you could easily find plenty of people to help.


Also, an official booklet on how to customize figures from Heroclix and such would be really great, as well. I know that I personally would love to get into customization, but I don't know how or have the resources, and I don't have the heart to chop my minis. An official booklet, with suggestions for good figures outside of SWM to chop and such, and instructions on how to make some minis, would be great. And maybe organizing small seminars on how to customize would also help attract players, or at least make the community more involved in the V-Sets.
surf_rider56
Posted: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 7:38:46 PM
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Seminar's on "How To customize" sounds like something that would be fun at Con's. I know that one way Warhammer 40k gets people in is having Mini Painting groups in their gameshops. If your LGS has a pretty fair sized SWM's group, that could be a possibility too.
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