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So, obviously you can't deflect or anything against morrigans attacks because its responding to her attack, but can you vonduun crab armor it? Since its responding to damage instead of the attack?
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Glossary Text:
Enemies attacked by this character cannot use Force powers and special abilities for the rest of the turn. Enemies hit by this character cannot benefit from commander effects and if it is a commander, its commander effect is suppressed for the rest of the round.
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Sweet, that's how we always played it, nice to know we were doing something right! Thanks :)
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501 Trooper wrote:Glossary Text:
Enemies attacked by this character cannot use Force powers and special abilities for the rest of the turn. So does that mean that an enemy with Avoid Defeat, can't use it if they were defeated by Morrigan? seems strange that that would be the case as it doesn't have anything to do with the attack itself or their damage and is only proc'd by them being defeated. That is awesome if it is the case, she just got so much better in my book 
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Dr Daman wrote:501 Trooper wrote:Glossary Text:
Enemies attacked by this character cannot use Force powers and special abilities for the rest of the turn. So does that mean that an enemy with Avoid Defeat, can't use it if they were defeated by Morrigan? seems strange that that would be the case as it doesn't have anything to do with the attack itself or their damage and is only proc'd by them being defeated. That is awesome if it is the case, she just got so much better in my book By that same token, would that also affect Force Spirit X?
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markedman247 wrote:Dr Daman wrote:501 Trooper wrote:Glossary Text:
Enemies attacked by this character cannot use Force powers and special abilities for the rest of the turn. So does that mean that an enemy with Avoid Defeat, can't use it if they were defeated by Morrigan? seems strange that that would be the case as it doesn't have anything to do with the attack itself or their damage and is only proc'd by them being defeated. That is awesome if it is the case, she just got so much better in my book By that same token, would that also affect Force Spirit X? Wow. I would think that would also be true. But one thats even better: Thought Bomb! Its a force power and while Thought Bomb says it cannot be cancelled I believe it wouldn't be able to be triggered in the first place.
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The card text specifies additional conditions. Quote:Card Text
On this character's turn, enemy characters attacked by this character cannot use special abilities or Force powers that respond to this character's attacks for the rest of the turn and enemies hit by this character's attacks cannot benefit from or grant commander effects for the rest of the round Abilities that trigger on defeat happen at a later step in the chain. Avoid Defeat would not be suppressed unless granted by a CE. Thought Bomb would still work.
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Ok, just so I'm clear on how she works. When she attacks an enemy, that enemy can't use any defensive abilities (such as Evade or Lightsabre Defence) to avoid the damage. They also can't use SA's that mitigate damage (like VCA and Beskar'gam). Is this correct?
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I'm not sure about VCA and Beskar'gam. They trigger on taking damage (from any source), not on being attacked or being hit by an attack. The answers probably will be found by carefully reviewing the resolving effects FAQ. http://www.bloomilk.com/Forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=10805 steps 7-10 appear to be the relevant parts
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Rather interesting...
I assume the attack does not actually happen until the D20 is rolled.
At that point, it works like Sonic Attack, so no Force Alter etc.
Seems like Betrayal would still take place as it triggers on the roll result and isn't a response to the attack per se.
Most of the other stuff follows from there in response if the attack hits:
Deflect, Reflect, Evade, Soresu, Enraged Reactions and so on.
Reaching the "when damaged" step, those types of abilities should function unless they are tied to CEs:
VCA, Beskar'gam, Counter Push...
So if I understand the timings, (big if) it is strong against some abilities, but there are a lot of other things that still happen.
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Thanks for clarifying Swinefeld. I didn't bother grabbing the card or looking it up. Interesting that the glossary definition leaves out the more specific language about responding. She's still a great piece!
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When attacked happens before the roll, I do believe.
A good guideline is to when you can or can't use Force Powers or Force Point in when you are being attacked by a Vong.
I will likely search WOTC, since I'm pretty sure Nickname defined the timing a bit more.
As for the glossary text, the card text overrides it. As for why there is the discrepency, I could go on, but I will just leave it as I missed it.
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Seems fairly clear from the FAQ that attack roll is 7 and when attacked is 8, but if Nickname tweaked it further after his Doomsday edition I'm curious to see what you find.
The Force Immunity comparison is a good one.
Might be nice to make a list for this SA like the one for FI (buried on Gamers somewhere).
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swinefeld wrote:Seems fairly clear from the FAQ that attack roll is 7 and when attacked is 8, but if Nickname tweaked it further after his Doomsday edition I'm curious to see what you find.
The Force Immunity comparison is a good one.
Might be nice to make a list for this SA like the one for FI (buried on Gamers somewhere). I feel more confused than ever. "The rest of the turn" seems key. Not the rest of this step in the process. All 17 steps are part of 1 turn. It feels like the TURN wouldn't end until after #17. If that were the case, then no crab armor, no beskargam, no avoid defeat . . . Basically no nothing. So I am lost here.
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The key thing is abilities "that respond to this character's attacks." I think Swinefeld has it right, or pretty close. I would think that any that triggers off being attacked or hit by an attack would be prevented, but anything that triggers from taking damage from whatever source (including attacks) would still be okay.
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UrbanShmi wrote:The key thing is abilities "that respond to this character's attacks." I think Swinefeld has it right, or pretty close. I would think that any that triggers off being attacked or hit by an attack would be prevented, but anything that triggers from taking damage from whatever source (including attacks) would still be okay. Thats what I get for reading late at night. I focused on the wrong part of the sentence
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UrbanShmi wrote:The key thing is abilities "that respond to this character's attacks." I think Swinefeld has it right, or pretty close. I would think that any that triggers off being attacked or hit by an attack would be prevented, but anything that triggers from taking damage from whatever source (including attacks) would still be okay. The pretty key ones are abilties that respond to being attacked, hit/missed, and taking damage. You can't use Force Bubble against Force Immune characters.
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Sithborg wrote:UrbanShmi wrote:The key thing is abilities "that respond to this character's attacks." I think Swinefeld has it right, or pretty close. I would think that any that triggers off being attacked or hit by an attack would be prevented, but anything that triggers from taking damage from whatever source (including attacks) would still be okay. The pretty key ones are abilties that respond to being attacked, hit/missed, and taking damage. You can't use Force Bubble against Force Immune characters. Force Bubble requires spending Force points, which is not only a deliberate response, but specifically disallowed in the glossary of Immunity. While I see the similarities, I don't see them as being the same. If it's the intent that's fine, but I'd prefer a glossary update over referencing an ability that gives everyone a headache. 
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Force Bubble is a response to taking damage, not only a response to attacks. The fact that Force Immunity still precludes it seems to mean that effects that trigger on taking damage would also be prevented by Suppressive Fire. So basically, what you're looking at is:
Effects that take place when the character is hit: Evade, Soresu, etc.
and
Effects that take place when the character takes damage: Shields, VCA, Dark Armor, Bodyguard?
but not
Effects that take place after the damage phase: Avoid Defeat, Self-Destruct
Obviously not an exhaustive list, but you get the idea.
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OK, I'll concede the damage reduction SAs due to the FAQ entry on Bubble vs Immunity.   If the damage is tied to the attack that way, then why would abilities stemming from defeat resulting from the damage that resulted from the attack not also be prevented?  Also, Bodyguard should not be prevented, as the BG is not the character that was attacked, and SF says nothing about damage being redirected. Energy Shield (from an adjacent ally) should work for the same reason. Back to the timing aspects: So then, a character with Pheromones can potentially prevent the first attack, but the attack would still count as being made, so SF would be in effect on Morrigan's twin, preventing Pheromones from being used again? Jar Jar could use Bombad as all that stuff happens during the targeting step?
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