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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 5/13/2013 Posts: 62
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I've been lurking here for a few days and came across some really great custom mini stats by the user Robobob. One set of rules devised allowed certain characters to acquire the special ability of defeated characters for the rest of that skirmish. I thought that was pretty neat. I've gotten to thinking it'd be neat to level-up characters that survive a skirmish. They can keep leveling up their base stats for every set number of XP that they acquire (perhaps amount of damage dealt?). I'm not sure how this would carry over to the skirmish let alone to the next game day. It'd require some extensive book keeping and markers on cards and complicate the simple mechanics and rules. Not sure if this should only work for non-unique grunts or if there should be a level cap in place or if the cost of that character should change. I'm really just thinking aloud.
I'm new to the game. Has anything like this been developed by members here? Should I just look into traditional pen-and-paper role playing to satisfy that desire? That sort of game seems far more complicated than SWM and while you gain the story telling aspect, you miss out on the tactical strategy of this game. I'd sort of like the best of both worlds. I can't afford any new tabletop games if something out there exists that does what I just described. So adapting the one I have hundreds of pieces for seems like the most economical solution.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/29/2008 Posts: 1,784 Location: Canada
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Actually, yes it has! And it's pretty fun, too. It's called SWM Campaign Edition (SWM:CE for short). Here's a link: https://bswmce1.runboard.com/
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 5/13/2013 Posts: 62
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Mind = Blown
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 8/1/2012 Posts: 643
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We've done pretty much the same thing in vassal and online play, should check it out
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 8/30/2012 Posts: 835 Location: The Batcave Ota Gotham, Naboo
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I am currently playing a campaign and running one as a Game Master. And it is a blast! From both sides it is fun! thereisnotry thanks for the link this looks really helpful!
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/26/2010 Posts: 1,390 Location: Florida
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Looks very interesting, im going to read that post but my first idea is look at real time strategy games. First thing that comes to mind is Halo Wars, if you have a unit survive many battles they gain stars over their head. Maybe do some sort of function like this, but I would measure it by points of killed. Maybe (a very loose idea) all troopers star as rookies, once they kill 50 pts of figures the go to experienced and get +1/10 to all base stats, when they kill another 100 points they become veterans and gain twin, or something along those lines.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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If you're just looking for adding plot to the games and not worried about leveling-up, linked scenarios work well. AndyHatton and I have done several mini-campaigns that span two gaming sessions (3 or 4 skirmishes). This is probably my favorite one (link is to the first of 4 parts): http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/848579/boba-versus-han-capturing-han-soloAnd here is the link to the campaign rules: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/848551/boba-versus-han-campaign-rules
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 5/13/2013 Posts: 62
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Darthbane53 wrote:Looks very interesting, im going to read that post but my first idea is look at real time strategy games. First thing that comes to mind is Halo Wars, if you have a unit survive many battles they gain stars over their head. Maybe do some sort of function like this, but I would measure it by points of killed. Maybe (a very loose idea) all troopers star as rookies, once they kill 50 pts of figures the go to experienced and get +1/10 to all base stats, when they kill another 100 points they become veterans and gain twin, or something along those lines. The link provided above in the first response has everything worked out and it makes a lot of sense. You don't need to add a story or campaign to it either. You could adapt the rules to fit skirmishes and just level up characters as you play. I think each player should have a limit of how many characters they could have at a time. In Pokemon, for example, you can only carry 6 pokeballs at a time. In Lucas Arts' "Gladius" (a must play console game where I drew this idea from), you can only have 20 gladiators in your school at a time. The trick is to build up a great number of diverse characters that can take on any challenge. The less characters you field, the higher the amount of XP they would gain. The more characters you field, the less XP they gain but the better chances of survival. I am going to play SWM using the rulebook before implementing SWM: CE's character system into skirmishes. And if we are feeling ambitious enough, we may try campaigns. But that would involve a lot more maps than I have. I only have a few double sided maps and the terrain tiles from the RS starter set. I know what VASSAL is. Is it very active these days? I am loving the atmosphere of this website. Everywhere else is either deserted or just dead links. I don't understand why people would just sell off an entire collection and quit playing a game because it's not produced anymore. I am just starting and am very excited to have the pieces I have. Also, that link provided above has some dead links to downloads and is not well managed and can be confusing at first. I found the rules and companion pieces for PC and GM for anyone interested: http://www.atlantaswg.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=136:swmce-materials&catid=39:swm-ce&Itemid=92 After reading that, that first link made a lot more sense.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 9/16/2008 Posts: 2,302
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I have only ever glanced over the CE rules, but i feel like they're somewhat complicated, as i recall them adding skills and classes to the game. I prefer the simplicity of SWMs, and wish there was something that was more or less a system of experience that allowed you to build characters much like the BlooMilk Custom Character creator, without adding additional rules and mechanics that dont exist within the standard game (class/skill/etc).
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 8/30/2012 Posts: 835 Location: The Batcave Ota Gotham, Naboo
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The CE rules are the ones that I use. You'r right they are complicated, but it is very realistic. It is like playing a mini version of KOTOR.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 5/13/2013 Posts: 62
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I agree they're very complicated compared to SWM. What about this TacRPG? Wasn't that the original thing that spawned SWM: CE? Was that more or less complicated? I could see RPG gamers wanting all these added rules but I agree, it sort of bogs the game down. But you'd have to add some complexity to level up characters.
I like the idea of having "classes" that can only take certain SAs, CEs, and Force points. That way you would have to create multiple characters of each class to field different characters and you couldn't make an uber invincible character with level caps. You get the XP you get and you use it wisely. I could have multiple scouts with different CEs and different SAs from one another and they're equally special.
I like the idea of using the cost of defeated characters as XP. Each character defeated during a skirmish is added and divided among all of my fielded characters. That's the main idea I got from SWM: CE. All the other stuff is interesting, but not really required for my purposes. Maybe one day I'll try it. Seems pretty fun if I had the time/resources to do it. VASSAL seems the most realistic route to do it.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 9/16/2008 Posts: 2,302
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Gungan Batman Clone wrote:The CE rules are the ones that I use. You'r right they are complicated, but it is very realistic. It is like playing a mini version of KOTOR. Kotor is based off of star wars saga edition ;), which is a great RPG. I feel like if i'm going to go through the trouble of learning CE, i might as well just use the Saga edition rules. I don't know what CE offer that saga doesn't... my assumtion is that it is somewhere in between SWM and SAGA, as it probably doesnt include rules for certain skills like knowledge and social capabilities, but does pull in the more skirmish based abilities like classes, tech skills, and possibly limited talents and feats (which are used as to gain bonuses as well as new applications of existing skills/abilities). The biggest problem with SAGA, and that CE may have fixed, and that SWM struggles to not be the opposite of, is the power level of force users. Saga force users are much more like what we see in the jedi... which is force users are > non force users, and there is not much competition. Even character's who are trained to deal with jedi, like Jango or boba , have to use every trick they have to compete, and sometimes (as the fett's have shown) thats not enough. It makes it hard for non-force users to really shine, and as characters level, it actually gets worse. CE may have some middle ground. SWM has mostly figured it out at this point, but for a long while, melee pieces just couldn't compete with the shooters. Even now, on the wrong map, jedi don't stand much chance against your cad/rex/mara/boba type characters.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/14/2009 Posts: 1,728
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adamb0nd wrote:Gungan Batman Clone wrote:The CE rules are the ones that I use. You'r right they are complicated, but it is very realistic. It is like playing a mini version of KOTOR. Kotor is based off of star wars saga edition ;), which is a great RPG. I feel like if i'm going to go through the trouble of learning CE, i might as well just use the Saga edition rules. Actually, it's based on the Revised Core Edition, Saga's precursor. Saga hadn't come out yet when the KotOR games were released.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 8/30/2012 Posts: 835 Location: The Batcave Ota Gotham, Naboo
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corranhorn wrote:adamb0nd wrote:Gungan Batman Clone wrote:The CE rules are the ones that I use. You'r right they are complicated, but it is very realistic. It is like playing a mini version of KOTOR. Kotor is based off of star wars saga edition ;), which is a great RPG. I feel like if i'm going to go through the trouble of learning CE, i might as well just use the Saga edition rules. Actually, it's based on the Revised Core Edition, Saga's precursor. Saga hadn't come out yet when the KotOR games were released. What are these two games? Can they be played with minis? They sound interesting.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/14/2009 Posts: 1,728
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Gungan Batman Clone wrote:corranhorn wrote:adamb0nd wrote:Gungan Batman Clone wrote:The CE rules are the ones that I use. You'r right they are complicated, but it is very realistic. It is like playing a mini version of KOTOR. Kotor is based off of star wars saga edition ;), which is a great RPG. I feel like if i'm going to go through the trouble of learning CE, i might as well just use the Saga edition rules. Actually, it's based on the Revised Core Edition, Saga's precursor. Saga hadn't come out yet when the KotOR games were released. What are these two games? Can they be played with minis? They sound interesting. Go for Saga. RCR is inferior to it, but Saga is amazing. And, yeah, in fact they are specifically designed around minis! They are role-playing games (a bit like D&D if you're unfamilar with the term).
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 5/13/2013 Posts: 62
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One thing confuses me for SWM: CE.
How do characters gain special abilities and commander effects as they level up? Are special abilities and commander effects on the stat cards the feats? And how do I buy them? Do I use the SPs earned? I thought those just directly influence the character's stats. Feats seem to have a cost so I know I just don't automatically get them upon reaching a new level. Can I forgo buying earlier cheaper abilities to save up for the more powerful expensive ones that don't require prerequisite feats? Also, are all of these feats actual special abilities from SWM or are there new SAs and CEs added from the RPG?
That's all for now. I'll likely run across more confusion when I actually try to implement this system into a game....
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 8/30/2012 Posts: 835 Location: The Batcave Ota Gotham, Naboo
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corranhorn wrote:Gungan Batman Clone wrote:corranhorn wrote:adamb0nd wrote:Gungan Batman Clone wrote:The CE rules are the ones that I use. You'r right they are complicated, but it is very realistic. It is like playing a mini version of KOTOR. Kotor is based off of star wars saga edition ;), which is a great RPG. I feel like if i'm going to go through the trouble of learning CE, i might as well just use the Saga edition rules. Actually, it's based on the Revised Core Edition, Saga's precursor. Saga hadn't come out yet when the KotOR games were released. What are these two games? Can they be played with minis? They sound interesting. Go for Saga. RCR is inferior to it, but Saga is amazing. And, yeah, in fact they are specifically designed around minis! They are role-playing games (a bit like D&D if you're unfamilar with the term). Cool! Are they for Star Wars Minis? Do you have a link to the rules or something?
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 8/30/2012 Posts: 835 Location: The Batcave Ota Gotham, Naboo
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Katarn07 wrote:One thing confuses me for SWM: CE.
How do characters gain special abilities and commander effects as they level up? Are special abilities and commander effects on the stat cards the feats? And how do I buy them? Do I use the SPs earned? I thought those just directly influence the character's stats. Feats seem to have a cost so I know I just don't automatically get them upon reaching a new level. Can I forgo buying earlier cheaper abilities to save up for the more powerful expensive ones that don't require prerequisite feats? Also, are all of these feats actual special abilities from SWM or are there new SAs and CEs added from the RPG?
That's all for now. I'll likely run across more confusion when I actually try to implement this system into a game.... Well I think reading through the materials here http://www.atlantaswg.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=136:swmce-materials&catid=39:swm-ce&Itemid=92 well answer your questions. But, I will answer them one by one for you. If I am wrong anyone else can feel free to jump in and correct me. How do characters gain special abilities and commander effects as they level up? In the Player Character Supplement in the attached link there is a chart for each character when it levels up. Say you are a level 1 Jedi Gaurdian and you have enough experience to now level up to level 2. You can choose one new feat (Special Ability), One new Force Power, and one new skill. Each feat/skill/force power has a point cost. In order for you to obtain that ability you use the following algorithm. You take your level (in this case level 2) and add 3 to that number. So in the example, you may choose any feat with a cost of 5 or less. Also you gain experience not just by killing people. If you play a full campaign with a Game Master, he will put in challenges for you to gain more xp. For example you get +10 xp if you do not take any damage during a skirmish. It is easier to survive in the campaign edition if you use the D10 system. This system says that whenever you take damage or heal damage, you must role a 10 sided die to determine how many hit points are taken off. For example, I have 50 HP and I am hit by an attack and in normal minis I am suppose to take 10 damage. However, with the D10 system I role a 10 sided die and get a 4 now I only take 4 damage, thus reducing my HP to 46. You don't have to have a 10 sided die to do this however, you could use a 20 sided die and use 1-2 for 1 3-4 for 2 ect. Be careful though, many 10 sided dies do not come labeled with a side that says 10 instead that side says 0. This is a lot for one question so I, and I can't get around to answer the rest of them right now. I hope it was helpful. But, read the rules through in the link. They are laid out very well and should answer all of your questions.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/14/2009 Posts: 1,728
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Gungan Batman Clone wrote:corranhorn wrote:Gungan Batman Clone wrote:corranhorn wrote:adamb0nd wrote:Gungan Batman Clone wrote:The CE rules are the ones that I use. You'r right they are complicated, but it is very realistic. It is like playing a mini version of KOTOR. Kotor is based off of star wars saga edition ;), which is a great RPG. I feel like if i'm going to go through the trouble of learning CE, i might as well just use the Saga edition rules. Actually, it's based on the Revised Core Edition, Saga's precursor. Saga hadn't come out yet when the KotOR games were released. What are these two games? Can they be played with minis? They sound interesting. Go for Saga. RCR is inferior to it, but Saga is amazing. And, yeah, in fact they are specifically designed around minis! They are role-playing games (a bit like D&D if you're unfamilar with the term). Cool! Are they for Star Wars Minis? Do you have a link to the rules or something? Yeah, these Star Wars minis! Saga was the RPG companion to the minis under WotC. I don't have a link to the rules, since that wuld be illegal, but you can find the core book on Amazon/Ebay if you're interested. It gets a bit steep in price since Saga's been out of print for a few years now.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 5/13/2013 Posts: 62
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That is more clear. I was confused about that algorithm. So upon leveling up to level 2, I have five points to spend. Would commander effects be considered a feat as well? And can I save some or all of those points for my next level up?
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