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New Map: The Vault -- Comments Requested Options
FlyingArrow
Posted: Monday, December 30, 2013 6:46:44 PM
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Over in another thread ( http://www.bloomilk.com/Forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=13493 ) I mentioned that I wanted to see a map of a vault, based in part on a scene from the novel Fatal Alliance (where the vault is in a Hutt's palace). I drew up what that sort of map might look like. Red squares and black lines are walls/obstacles. Green squares are low objects. Yellow objects are difficult terrain. Dashed lines are doors.



Two doors must be passed to enter the vault, and you don't enter gambit until you get past the first door. Combat will typically begin in the Antechamber and/or Security area before spilling into the Vault.

The top right corner of this map is street, the top left is a parking area, and the rest is interior. The openings at the top are designed to match up with the Business District of Map Pack 5's Capital City. The 'bank' on the Capital City maps is split between the Business District and the Residential District. The Residential District has the vault, security, and an office. This map has the same things, so it can replace the Residential District while being attached to the tellers on the Business District. Here, the bank here is far larger - taking up essentially the whole map. So if you attach this map to some tellers, the vault can be part of a very large bank. Or the map can stand alone and you can consider the vault to be in a large palace (since that was the original inspiration).

Regardless of whether it's a bank or part of a palace, there's a VIP area at the bottom right, including a private apartment for long-term guests.

For scenarios, the heist could start in the parking garage, coming in through security, off the street through the restricted entrance or the armory, or at the south entrance up the stairs (south of the stairs should be open at the edge of the map - there shouldn't be a wall there - oops). The double-thick row of black squares around vault indicates the extreme security measures taken. Note that this vault is huge - big enough to hold a starfighter if you could fly it in there.

Anyway, comments are welcome. Does it look playable/make sense? First time drawing up a map layout.
SignerJ
Posted: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:03:34 AM
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Seems like it would be playable.

I'm not the best person to give feedback, however, since I don't make maps, or play competitively.
harryg
Posted: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:32:10 AM
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Gambit seems a little too easy in the vault area.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:43:34 AM
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harryg wrote:
Gambit seems a little too easy in the vault area.


What do you mean by easy? Too easy to shoot?
harryg
Posted: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:52:23 AM
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I mean it's to easy to get gambit. It's easy to hold a position in a room with one entrance like that.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 8:58:38 AM
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harryg wrote:
I mean it's to easy to get gambit. It's easy to hold a position in a room with one entrance like that.


There aren't any safe squares in gambit - everything can be shot from the Security area if the doors are all open. And getting to gambit isn't (shouldn't be) easy. Both sides should reach the Antechamber at the same time, and you can't get to gambit without going through the Antechamber.

How would you suggest improving it?
harryg
Posted: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:00:18 AM
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Yeah that's true. Nothing other than that really.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:09:29 AM
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I see a few things I changed.

I think that there should be a couple of safe squares in gambit - if you manage to get all the way into vault, so I shortened the inner door to 2 squares instead of 4 squares. That provides 2 squares of gambit that is safe from long-distance shooters.

I added another Restricted Entrance so that the left side has two approaches to the Antechamber.

I removed some doors on the south side of the map so that if someone decides to go that way it is a faster route.

FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, July 31, 2014 10:02:53 AM
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Bump. I was thinking about this map again. Anyone else have comments/criticisms/suggestions?
Jedicartographer
Posted: Thursday, August 28, 2014 2:29:18 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
Bump. I was thinking about this map again. Anyone else have comments/criticisms/suggestions?


Sorry, I literally forgot bloomilk existed Unsure Having a newborn baby tends to disorient you. I like the floor plan. But I agree only one way in and out of gambit makes it a no-go for the restricted list. However as a scenario map, obviously it makes sense. I cant think of too many vaults with 2 openings.

Its a good layout. I'd make some structural changes more so it seems to make sense not only for game play but that the buildings make sense architecturally as well. but theyre all minor tweaks.

You should ask Josh to make the art for you so it matches up with the other city maps he made. He'd probably give you a decent rate, and it would be a really neat special thing for you.

FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, August 28, 2014 7:20:50 PM
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Thanks for the comments, JC! What are the minor suggestions? Josh is ArmoredGear, right? Is he still checking here? I haven't seen him around. Do you have an email address for him?

I was thinking of blasting a hole in the south wall into the vault. That way there are two ways into the vault. A tile (?) could repair the hole. That would work just like the hole blasted in the holding cells on Christopher West's Boarding Action. I'd also make the approach on the north a bit shorter so that engagement could initiate either on the north or the south, or if one starts north and one south then engagement would go right through gambit. I'll make those changes and post them pretty soon.
General_Grievous
Posted: Thursday, August 28, 2014 8:45:54 PM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
Thanks for the comments, JC! What are the minor suggestions? Josh is ArmoredGear, right? Is he still checking here? I haven't seen him around. Do you have an email address for him?

I was thinking of blasting a hole in the south wall into the vault. That way there are two ways into the vault. A tile (?) could repair the hole. That would work just like the hole blasted in the holding cells on Christopher West's Boarding Action. I'd also make the approach on the north a bit shorter so that engagement could initiate either on the north or the south, or if one starts north and one south then engagement would go right through gambit. I'll make those changes and post them pretty soon.


Maybe the vault from the Smuggler's book? They did cut a section of wall away
FlyingArrow
Posted: Thursday, August 28, 2014 8:56:24 PM
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Which book are you referring to?
General_Grievous
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2014 4:50:12 AM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
Which book are you referring to?



Scoundrels by Zahn. The whole plot is breaking into a black sun vault
FlyingArrow
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2014 5:27:21 AM
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Ah, okay. Maybe I'll look into that one. Sounds like the plot would fit this map.

I made a few changes:

I blew a hole into the vault in the south wall so there are two approaches to gambit.
I shortened the northern approaches to gambit so that each approach (north/south from either side) is 18-24 squares. I shifted the northern doors of the antechamber one square away from the center to restrict line of sight into gambit a little bit more.



Thoughts on the changes?

Another option would be to just shift the vault out of the way so that it's a scenario feature but not really prominent for normal skirmishes. It could go straight down out of the way or moved up against the right-hand edge so that one player has the option to start inside it.
armoredgear7
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2014 6:09:24 AM
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Thanks for the tip Matt - I don't really spend any time around these parts anymore, having moved onto other games besides SWM.

Having a blown-out wall in the vault is a necessity I think.

It's a nice idea for a map though, and it's something we haven't seen before. Though I haven't played SWM in ages, it does seem like the left side has a significant mobility advantage due to the open hallway running north/south, as well as being able to advance/retreat with ease to their edge. Right side has a lot of cover/doors to go through. The gambit area of this map actually reminds me a bit of the Kessel map I did ages ago - tight inner room surrounded by hallways / narrow access points.

Matt is also right that some of the layout doesn't make sense architecturally; there's probably a bit of streamlining that can be done there.
FlyingArrow
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2014 7:06:39 AM
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Where is the Kessel map? I don't think I have seen that one. Or is that Asteroid Base from MP4?
armoredgear7
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2014 9:50:56 AM
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FlyingArrow wrote:
Where is the Kessel map? I don't think I have seen that one. Or is that Asteroid Base from MP4?


Did we call it that? I guess so:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/armoredgear7/8373490197/in/set-72157638289678473
kobayashimaru
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2014 12:50:30 PM
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Sweet!
With a blownup bunker/vault, we have before and after maps! Score!
It feels and plays somewhat like the most recent Wolfenstein: tight angles favoring small base minis and due to the confined spaces, I'd want to take units that don't have to be within 6 squares to be powered up heh. Playtests with missiles and grenades, or against *shudders* vong...
they were just too effective. Force wave WOULD have been effective too, had I not been picked off on the approach.

In other map references, this plays a lot like the Clone Strike Starter Map, or the RotS Starship Corridors map, but with more constrained angles and smaller spaces: grenades and Area of Effect weaponry is hyper effective here.

The Pre-Battle Damage vault is good for scenarios: capture/kill the VIP, secure the facility (if you put an elevator tile inside the vault, its the top layer to a larger facility): scenarios without gambit, where they have to capture the elevator really push the imagination. Friends, ex service woman actually, suggested being able to do the roman and sabotage your own objective if the situation was bleak...

I think this could also work as the topside part of a Fallout style vault. heh... BigGrin

Thanks for sharing again, and hopefully the concrit was useful for you;
was there specific areas of feedback/of concern you were wondering about? Such as:
what playstyles happened most often?
What abilities were most often in play?
How do people intend to use the map: as standalone or as part of a larger campaign? If as part of a larger campaign: what other maps does this bunker/vault synergise with?
I can gather some more stats and metrics like the above if you'd prefer... just some mud map ones, back of the envelope stuff heh

Speaking of metrics, The Hutts, maybe he can playtest and get some solid metrics:
his analysis of powercreep demonstrates his willingness and ableness at metrics heh. (a good read too by the by: offers some tentative proof that VSets aren't too OP relative to the 'wotc' original sets, and suggests there's more inconsistency amongst the WotC sets than the interface between WotC and fanmade Vsets)
FlyingArrow
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2014 6:42:42 PM
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kobayashimaru wrote:

Thanks for sharing again, and hopefully the concrit was useful for you;
was there specific areas of feedback/of concern you were wondering about? Such as:
what playstyles happened most often?
What abilities were most often in play?
How do people intend to use the map: as standalone or as part of a larger campaign? If as part of a larger campaign: what other maps does this bunker/vault synergise with?


Thanks!

In terms of maps it synergizes with, as I mentioned earlier, this map links up with one of the District maps from Map Pack 5 to form a very large bank. Alternatively, you could view it as part of a large palace.

I'm mainly just interested in keeping the feel of the vault while making it a restricted-worthy layout. I did a re-work where I moved the vault down so that the antechamber is the gambit area. This may work better:



I also tried to guess about what was meant by architectural issues. I moved the armory closer to security. I separated the map into employee area (left) and guest area (right).In the story I'm mainly trying to capture, the Hutt has a valuable artifact stored in the Vault. The bidders on that item are honored guests, so it makes sense to have the VIP area and to even have private apartments for the VIPs to stay in while they are on the planet for the auction. I moved the guest area closer to the antechamber, where the auction would be held - just after the item is brought out from the vault. The apartments make less sense if you think of the vault as part of a bank, but oh well. The apartments do have exits to the outside, so you could just think of them as being unrelated to the bank I guess.
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