|
Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 9/23/2008 Posts: 1,487 Location: Lower the Hutt, New Zealand
|
So.
A while ago, I was part of a discussion about creating some kind of levelling system for introducing new players to SWM. The idea was that a new player having to come in and learn the ins and outs of 1500+ pieces and all the combinations therein to be able to compete and not get destroyed game after game was a big ask, but if they had some pathway of stepping through various parts of the game, they would be able to negotiate it better, enjoy it more, learn better techniques etc, etc.
Anyhoo, an I consider the future in NZ - especially as I've just recently had a conversation with some excited young prospects for the game - I'm thinking how best to set something like this up. The way I see it at the moment (prepared to be argued another way though) is that it could look something like this:
Level 1: A select set of pieces from the first three sets that you could use to run Rebel, Imperial, Republic and Separatist with some Fringe support. It'd be like a list of 1-15 pieces for each faction (and no Doombot!) so that a beginning player can learn the basics of the game and get excited with lightsabers and such. Making a .pdf (or series of .pdfs) for this would be easy peasy and a new player could play armed with a print out for something of the like. Boom.
Level 2: We ramp up the levels of the four factions and bring them to almost full power (taking away big guns like Thrawn - but having Grand Admiral Thrawn?) so that they can see what the game looks like powered up. Still, we are careful about the real nasty stuff like Dodonna and the like, and we keep it at the four factions. Perhaps we have Lobot as a big piece of this pie.
Level 3: We use this level to introduce the 10 factions and look to have a list of pieces that sums up each faction, with having the throttle fully off. I'm thinking that we pretty much add nothing to the previous four factions, but just add the next 5 (plus Fringe) and still - across Level 2&3 - each faction only has maybe 20-25 pieces. The idea here is that we are looking to try characterise the main style of each faction with each list. Maybe each faction might have 1 Power10 piece, but maybe not!
Level 4: Throttle is off, we let it all go. You're hoping that by this stage, your padawan learners have now got the hang of the game and can handle their way around the board. They know what each faction specialises in, they know how to play, and they won't be freaked out by seeing new pieces, because they will know mostly what to look for. Hopefully, at this stage they'll be excited enough about the game that they've gone and read a bunch of stat cards outside their level and are probably scouring the Bloomilk.
After that, we try and supply some writeups about each faction and the main pieces and strategies within that faction and that they're all in handy places so that we can direct the padawans there for their learning. We add to those each set and BOOM! we have new players brought through a system that makes it easy for them. All we have to do is hold their hand a bit, and enjoy going old school when we play them at their level.
Comments, suggestions?
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/29/2008 Posts: 1,784 Location: Canada
|
It looks really good. I like the idea of starting at the most basic level and gradually ramping it up to full throttle.
|
|
Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
|
I think that ramping up the power level as quickly as possible while ramping up complexity slowly is the way to go. If that makes any sense.
There are a few parts to complexity. There's the complexity of individual abilities, which usually isn't that much (just a few exceptions). Then there's the complexity of how they interact (which can be difficult). Then there's just the sheer number of characters/abilities on the board at once. But the more you know individual characters, the less complex it is for you personally.
If new players learn the strong pieces, but start with just the simpler Tier 1 pieces, then as you add more complexity they will already know a good part of their squad.
A big part of the complexity is just learning what individual pieces do. If players start with the simplest Tier 1 pieces, then they already know them and can then build up to a full Tier 1 squad as more pieces are added.
Level 0: Pre-built squads of 50 or 100 points. 15-20 minutes skirmish to learn line of sight/targeting, simple CE, round/phase/turn, etc. Players only need 1 game at this Level.
Level 1: Pre-built squads of simple pieces, where the pieces are drawn from Tier 1 squads. Limited to just a few factions. Either a swarm with many identical pieces or a squad with only a few pieces. In either case, not too many different stat cards to worry about.
Level 2: Add in other factions and more complexity to the Level 1 squads.
Level 3: Include everything.
|
|
Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
|
Example...
Level 1: Captain Rex, Panaka, Spaartis, Uggies 100pt squad Snowtrooper Commander, Veteran Snowtroopers, Snowtroopers, Uggies 100pt squad
Level 2: Add Yobuck. 200pts Add Snowtrooper Officer, Security Officer Stormtrooper. 200pts
Level 3: Skybuck Daala Snowtroopers
|
|
Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 9/23/2008 Posts: 1,487 Location: Lower the Hutt, New Zealand
|
So, Level One: Do you think there should be multiple pre-built squads per faction? Say like 3 or 4? I think you should only have the 4 movie factions to start with. What point level? If we can get some squads and define the goals of Level 1, I can .pdf it.
Level 0 has to be a Rebel Storm Rebel vs. Imperial - surely!
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/29/2008 Posts: 1,784 Location: Canada
|
kezzamachine wrote:Level 0 has to be a Rebel Storm Rebel vs. Imperial - surely! Absolutely! Whenever I teach the game to someone for the first time, it's ALWAYS rebel storm troopers. There are some things you just don't mess with in the order of the universe.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 2/14/2014 Posts: 144
|
I'm actually scheduled to teach 2 new players this weekend, and so what I've done is set up 8 100pt squads that they can have first pick of. Basicly, I go over each squad's highlights and play style and they pick whatever seems coolest. Then the other 4 or so pick from the pool and are allowed to change up their squad with other pieces from the pool.
The kind of squads I have for them are generally low-act beat sticks with a little fodder, or a basic stormtrooper or rebel trooper squad. Ex: Darth Tyrannous LotDS, E522, BDO, and Separatist commando; Atris, Jedi Crusader, Jedi Guardian, Kel Dor BB; Crix Madine, Obi wan Kenobi, Rebel Commando pathfinder, Bothan Commando, Ugnaught, ERC (override usually removed with new players)
Three things I try to do when setting up a squad for new players: -Keep it reasonably flavorful, and make up backstories if desired. -Give them something that can take some punishment; they will make mistakes likely, make sure they survive -Steal all the good pieces for new players or at least spread them out; in a previous game, one player just took all the good be at sticks (I've since gotten more) and wrecked the new player playing fodder they thought was good like the Mon Cal Medic.
Highlights for new players I've found are taking down enemy key attackers, or engaging 2 beats in direct battle. I once had Darth nihl and Darth Vader team up to hunt down my cheap fringe filler piece just so they could duel to the death without interference to finish the game. That's why I make sure every squad has its terrifying piece that needs to get killed (Vader, Sith heavy assault droid, Mace JM, Acklay, HK-47, Rakghoul)
I also try to position them on the map next to me and attempt to work out a cooperation agreement so they don't have to worry about getting annihilated first turn and have someone to help them figure out what to do with their pieces. I usually end up dying halfway through though or am betrayed and they have to start coming up with plans. I've seen new players end up defeating the rest of the players in their first game.
Once a player is no longer new, they can design their own squads based on some cool synergy or around a piece they like (rakghoul is love). I often see a player making a BBSV squad since they realized that evade is really powerful when they played lando DS earlier.
I've trained at least a dozen new players over the past year, not everyone stays, but I'd like to think the first game is a very important game both for selling people on the game and making them relevant in future games.
|
|
Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
|
kezzamachine wrote:Level 0 has to be a Rebel Storm Rebel vs. Imperial - surely! Agreed. I'll have to check the exact squads I have when I get home, but it's Stormtroopers versus Rebels. Rebel Troopers have RS Han Solo with them. The Stormtroopers have a couple elites and a commander.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/26/2008 Posts: 2,115 Location: Watertown, SD
|
I'm a fan of going chronologically for things like this. With a smaller mini pool, they'll learn the pieces without being overwhelmed. Also as a nifty thing, you'll get a mini meta as you'd then have a group of people discovering each set as if it was just coming out and adjusting accordingly. Vets might even want to join in as it'd give them a chance to relive the old days or give them a chance to dust off some of the minis sitting in the shoebox for years. They could even, for an added challenge, handicap themselves and try using some of the bad pieces of the sets to level the playing field. Can a motley crew of Klatoonian Enforcers take out Vader? Probably not, but they can sure try!
In any case, regardless of the direction you go, I will say that when you introduce Override, make sure you either introduce Satchel Charge at the same time or make sure every faction gets access to it (Probably by introducing R7 early over Lobot, as Reinforcements may cause a paralysis of indecisiveness in rookies).
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/18/2008 Posts: 153
|
I've begun teaching my wife this game and the first attempt with what I deemed the "best" iconic rebels and imperials was a disaster. It's not that the pieces I picked were complicated, it was the fact that they were overpowered and required expert strategy knowledge to play. So, I scrapped those builds and decided to try teaching her the game the way I learned it - with Rebel Storm pieces only, using the squads I used back then when I would play skirmishes:
Rebels Han Solo Luke Skywalker, Rebel Princess Leia, Senator Chewbacca Quarren Assassin C3PO
Empire Emperor Palpatine Elite Snowtrooper Elite Stormtrooper x2 Mara Jade, Emperor's Hand Stormtrooper
The best thing this did for me was create the opportunity to teach the basics without rushing through the game. The imperial build on its face is far superior but the rebels can win by using the inherent game rules (must shoot closest, combine fire, etc.)
I think from here, once she has a few RS games under her belt, I will introduce Clone Strike next, then accelerate into Revenge of the Sith and Universe.
|
|
Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 9/23/2008 Posts: 1,487 Location: Lower the Hutt, New Zealand
|
Okay then. Let's build a 50-point Imperial and Rebel squad - super basic, line of sight, CEs kinda thing, with non-uniques. Then, how about a 100-point army with Vader and Luke/Leia/Han... death star kind of stuff. All Rebel Storm!
Go!
|
|
Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
|
This is what I used the last time I taught the game and I thought it worked well:
IMPERIAL Stormtrooper Officer Elite Stormtrooper Stormtrooper x5
REBEL Han Solo (RS) Elite Rebel Trooper Rebel Trooper x3
Accurate, Cunning, Double Attack, a simple commander effect.
|
|
Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 9/23/2008 Posts: 1,487 Location: Lower the Hutt, New Zealand
|
Good! I'm gonna have a look at this and see if I can draw up a graphic around this. Gimme a week or so...
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/26/2008 Posts: 2,115 Location: Watertown, SD
|
For the premade squads, after the initial run, I'd give them some various choices. Let them experiment with the matchups, and they'll learn that some squads are good against certain types of squads, and bad against others.
For some alternative, simple 50-pt. squads which could probaly be adapted to themes:
Rebels:
Rebel Commando Bothan Spy x2 Gamorrean Guard Twi'lek Scoundrel Ithorian Scout
---
Lando Calrissian Princess Leia, Senator Bespin Guard x4
---
Luke Skywalker, Rebel Rebel Pilot x2 C-3PO Elite Rebel Trooper
---
Chewbacca Wookiee Soldier x3 Ewok
Imperial:
Imperial Officer Heavy Stormtrooper x2 Stormtrooper x2
---
Mara Jade, Emperor's Hand Royal Guard Probe Droid Stormtrooper x2
---
Dengar Sandtooper on Dewback x2 Stormtooper
---
Stormtrooper Officer Scout Trooper x3 Stormtrooper x2
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/30/2008 Posts: 2,093
|
you guys could always talk to randy about what he uses for his minis madness thing he does. Very fun, and some very fun squads. All 50 pts, all designed to be played in 15 mins or less. Some theme, some are better than others.
|
|
Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
|
Great point. And they're seeded based on the tournament results.
|
|
Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 9/23/2008 Posts: 1,487 Location: Lower the Hutt, New Zealand
|
Okay. Here's a draft of Level 1. I changed it from Level 0 because you never start a video game on Level 0... anyhoo. The PDF is available here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gdxzphjg9gczc6p/SWM101.%20Level%201.pdf?dl=0The Rebel Storm Rules Set is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zvs0g2p5zz2odkg/SWM%20Rules.%20Rebel%20Storm.pdf?dl=0
|
|
Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 9/23/2008 Posts: 1,487 Location: Lower the Hutt, New Zealand
|
I take it that from the overwhelming support to my latest work, people are generally happy with Level 1. That means Level 2 is next!
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/29/2008 Posts: 1,784 Location: Canada
|
Yes, it looks really good.
|
|
Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
|
Agreed. On to level 2!
In level 2, I'd imagine 4 100pt squads to choose from. Rebel, Imperial, Republic, Separatist so that most likely they see familiar names.
No door control yet. Move to Tier 1 pieces if possible, but no abilities that are too complicated. Either swarm-ish pieces - multiple pieces with the same stat block is easier to remember. Or higher-cost pieces, so that you don't have too many pieces in the squad.
|
|
Guest |