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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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Here is a proposed Restricted List. What would yours look like? (Assume we stay at 21 maps.)
RESTRICTED LIST HALL OF FAME MAPS: I call these Hall of Fame maps because I think there is virtually zero chance any of them ever get dropped from the Restricted List. They're just that popular.
Cloud City Peaceful City Commander’s Office Rhen Var Citadel
KEEPERS: Other maps I'd keep on the Restricted List, in order of preference
Bothan Spynet Off World Shipping Center Asteroid Base Great Library Off World Cargo Docks Anchorhead Starport District Cantina Map Simulation Deck Tomb of the Acolytes Jabba’s Palace Command Deck Rancor Pen
SWITCHES: Four new maps replacing four maps currently on the Restricted List
Outlaw City... replaces Theed Palace. They have a similar layout anyway. Let's try something new.
Oceanic Facility... replaces Grand Plaza. Grand Plaza has zero Lancer-safe spots in the starting zone. That's enough for me to drop it. I've had some good skirmishes on Oceanic Facility.
Mining Colony: Ground Level... replaces Nightclub. Nightclub is so wide open. Ground Level is a really great map - play on it if you haven't yet. Those 3 squares in each corner are a problem, though. If those can't be ruled illegal, then it's not a viable map. In that case, bring in Mining Colony: Upper Level instead. It doesn't have the issue with the 3 squares in the corners.
Outer Rim Fueling Station... replaces Cliffside Citadel. I really like Outer Rim Fueling Station. Arguably, one side doesn't have a safe spot for commanders, but it's no worse than Cliffside Citadel, and the map overall is more interesting.
NOT RESTRICTED Which maps came close to making my list but didn't quite make it?
OTHER FAVORITES: If there were room, I'd promote these to Restricted, too.
Mining Colony: Upper Level (assuming it doesn't take Ground Floor's place) Dark Academy Remote Listening Post (starting outside can be really bad if you need to protect commanders, though)
(Put Theed Palace here, too. I like it - I only said to switch it out for the sake of variety.)
OTHER CONTENDERS: I wouldn't vote for these but wouldn't object, either. In order of preference.
Commercial Spaceport Ice Fortress North Smuggler’s Base (former Restricted list map) Throne Room (former Restricted list map) Boarding Action Strike Force Carrier Mos Eisley Residence (former Restricted list map) Alien Warzone Hall of Judgement (former Restricted list map) Imperial Plaza
OUT, BUT IN THE CONVERSATION: I don't like any of these for the Restricted list, but they're part of the conversation.
Orbital Docking Facility: Administrative Quadrant Cliffside Citadel (currently Restricted) Grand Plaza (currently Restricted) Nightclub (currently Restricted) Financial District (Gambit looks too wide open to me, but it did get some support for Restricted when Map Pack 5 was first released so I put it here.) Exodus Class Cruiser
(There are close to 20 other maps on the Standard list. I don't think any of them are in the conversation.)
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/9/2008 Posts: 4,729 Location: Chicago
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Hadn't seen this before.
Can't believe peaceful city made your hall of fame. Probably my least favorite map. I hate Barbies play land. Not only is it ugly - it plays bad. Run someone in center, lock a door and stay out of LoS. Lame.
Theed would be in my HoF.
Also Cloud City sucks. It's not broken because one side is so bad, but it's not HoF. Same story for Cliffside citadel and nightclub.
Already said my piece about TotA. And it's not JUST diplomat block-ins. You can clog those halls with Mice too. Not saying you CANT have a good game on it. But that's not what we are discussing. The real issue is can it be abused? The resounding answer is YES on this one. It's the first that needs to go
Munilinst Grand Plaza is the next to go. Ask Jason K to play you on it. You'll never want to play on that map again
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/29/2011 Posts: 1,246 Location: SWMing now in the 936
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I loathe Cloud City, removing Theed is a BAD idea for Outlaw City. Theed is a HoF map way more than CC.
Get rid of Cloud City & OW Cargo Docks in favor of Outlaw City & Oceanic.
I found that Nightclub was fun to have around. (editorial comment...)
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/29/2011 Posts: 1,246 Location: SWMing now in the 936
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Funny that Tim and I finally agree on something... LOL
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/9/2008 Posts: 4,729 Location: Chicago
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DARPH NADER wrote:Funny that Tim and I finally agree on something... LOL I officially retract my comment to prevent such a travesty as agreeing with this guy ^
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 9/30/2008 Posts: 1,288
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I've never understood the appeal of Cloud City. It's ok, but I don't think I've ever chosen it for an event.
Grand Plaza definitely needs to get dropped. It's a terrible map, easily the worst on the current list.
I do agree with Peaceful City as a HoF map. I think it's beautifully done (the details on the statues are fantastic), and have never had a problem playing on it. I take it to tournaments all the time. It's got interesting lines of sight to make shooters compelling to play on it, but enough ways for melee to advance. Maybe my second favorite map after Commander's Office.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 10/28/2008 Posts: 606
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If you take a WOTC you need to add back Throne or Base. You need at least 3-4 WOTC maps on sorry but its just not fair to take them off.
I will only play on WOTC because I dont believe the custom maps are good for the game that has nothing to do with my reason though.
The game is dying every day if you do want new players or old ones back you need to keep WOTC on the list.
Or figure out away to get all the maps as pdf from the artists its not fair to have maps that are hard to get on the list. Even if you disagree with me getting maps is hard to find for a new or old player we need to focus on those players. Sorry but the game will never grow without them.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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Wow - really surprised to hear the comments against Cloud City. I had never heard anyone complain about it and had the impression that it was a well respected map. My skirmishes on that map end up being balanced and fun. Not that it's my favorite, but given the competition among WotC maps, it really stands out to me as the best other than Ravaged Base (Commander's Office). Jonny, what map are referring to as "Base"? Ravaged Base is officially Commander's Office and is still Restricted. I'm not sure what other map would be called 'Base'. The original Death Star map is Standard, if that's the one you are referring to. I know some people like that one. I agree that we need at least 3 WotC maps. I'd say Commander's Office (Ravaged Base), Cloud City, and either Rancor Pen or Throne Room. Hall of Judgement would be my next choice, over Nightclub or Grand Plaza. And there are a couple other WotC maps I'd take ahead of Nightclub or Grand Plaza: Mos Eisley and Freight Transit Station. So there's my WotC Top Ten: 1. Ravaged Base 2. Cloud City 3. Throne Room 4. Rancor Pen 5. Hall of Judgement 6. Mos Eisley 7. Freight Transit Station 8. Night Club 9. Grand Plaza 10. Death Star Most of the ArmoredCartographer maps are still available at Miniature Market. I just checked - the only ArmoredCartographer Restricted maps not currently in stock there are Theed Palace and Cantina Map. All of the Christopher West maps are in stock at his map store except Cargo Docks, and they are all available as PDFs to print your own. Here is his new store: http://maps-of-mastery-store.myshopify.com/ . So 14 of the 16 non-WotC maps on the Restricted list are still available retail.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 10/28/2008 Posts: 606
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Then we do we talk to make sure its clear where to get these maps, lists of the maps, PDF of the Vsets, Floor rules sorry but its not clear. I am broken DVD player at this point.
Changing maps, getting new vsets and changing the rules are all but not only if you can find the stuff. (for the record i am willing to redo Gamers and that be the place)
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/30/2008 Posts: 2,093
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I have plenty of Cantina maps available, and they have been on e-bay almost non-stop for nearly 2 years.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 9/23/2008 Posts: 1,487 Location: Lower the Hutt, New Zealand
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Ooo. I may have some buyers for a coupl'a Cantinas...
Cargo Docks is my favourite map. Freaks the hell out of people. Although, now that our group has a few copies, it's not such a surprise.
Why did Hall of Judgement go?
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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Interesting discussions about maps on SHNN tonight.
Hall of Judgement is too shooty. From either side you can shoot right into gambit. From the right side, there's tons of low objects so super-stealth shooters have a field day.
I really like Cargo Docks, too. Not sure I'd go as far as 'favorite', but I do like it.
Haven't heard anything from The Celestial Warrior, so I don't know if changes are even a possibility, but it's fun to talk about it. I'd like to see 3 maps moved in/out just for the sake of variety. Assuming there are 3 maps on Standard that are worth moving up. I hear plenty of complaints about lots of maps on Restricted. I'd like to hear more about people's favorites to move up to Restricted.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/11/2013 Posts: 758
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NOOOOO NOT CLOUD CITY. Don't get rid of it it's the only restricted map I own :(
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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harryg wrote:NOOOOO NOT CLOUD CITY. Don't get rid of it it's the only restricted map I own :( Don't worry. It's not going anywhere.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/18/2008 Posts: 1,098 Location: Kokomo
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harryg wrote:NOOOOO NOT CLOUD CITY. Don't get rid of it it's the only restricted map I own :( I love cloud city. Never understood why people hate it so much. Probably because of gambit. Idk
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/18/2008 Posts: 538 Location: Virginia
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TimmerB123 wrote:Hadn't seen this before.
Can't believe peaceful city made your hall of fame. Probably my least favorite map. I hate Barbies play land. Not only is it ugly - it plays bad. Run someone in center, lock a door and stay out of LoS. Lame
This made me chuckle. I hope Josh(AG7) isn't reading this.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/18/2008 Posts: 1,098 Location: Kokomo
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Jedicartographer wrote:TimmerB123 wrote:Hadn't seen this before.
Can't believe peaceful city made your hall of fame. Probably my least favorite map. I hate Barbies play land. Not only is it ugly - it plays bad. Run someone in center, lock a door and stay out of LoS. Lame
This made me chuckle. I hope Josh(AG7) isn't reading this. Peaceful City is my second favorite map after Bothan Spynet. It's the map I chose to take on the big bully squads at Gen-Con 2014. It's balanced with areas for commanders and safe squares for both sides to advance to gambit. The shrubs on either side make for some nice shooting lanes. I also appreciate that it's a lighter map and easier on my aging eyes. However, "Barbies play land" is a brilliant name for this map. I mean, it really does have a doll house in the middle of it. Obviously play-style has a great influence on an individual's map preference. If you play rock you want a map with fast access to a well protected gambit. If you play paper you want a map with multiple corridors and open shooting lanes. If you play scissor style you want strafing lanes and safe landing spots. It's no wonder people can't agree on what makes a good map.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/9/2008 Posts: 4,729 Location: Chicago
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My proposed list:
List A (Civilian Sector) Cloud City Nightclub Theed Palace Off World Shipping Center Off World Cargo Docks Great Library
(Remove Peaceful City)
List B (Tatooine) Rancor Pen Anchorhead Jabba's Palace Cantina Map Cliffside Citadel Starport District
(move Simulation Deck to list C)
List C (Hidden Bases) Commander's Office Rhen Var Citadel Asteroid Base Bothan Spynet Command Deck Simulation Deck (moved from list B)
(Remove Tomb of the Acolytes and Grand Plaza,)
3 dropped (1 WotC, 2 not), and 1 moved over. Simulation Deck is more of a hidden base type of map than something on Tattooine anyway.
6 on each list is plenty (I'd be fine with 5). 7 is too many
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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FlyingArrow wrote: Outer Rim Fueling Station... replaces Cliffside Citadel. I really like Outer Rim Fueling Station. Arguably, one side doesn't have a safe spot for commanders, but it's no worse than Cliffside Citadel, and the map overall is more interesting.
I'm wrong. Still like playing on this map, but pretty much overlooked that wide open lane at the bottom of the map. None of our engagements have ever happened there, but it's wide open to the backfield for a big movement breaker. Outer Rim Fueling Station is not a viable Restricted map.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/8/2010 Posts: 3,623
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I want to approach the list from a huge viewpoint for this post. As it seems that is the one major aspect of the gam left unchanged from WOTC is that people don't play huges competitively. A big reason I believe is getting stuck on maps. It is difficult to play a ranged huge and almost impossible to play a melee huge. With that being said here is my thoughts:
I would like to see these maps promoted to the restricted list:
Alien Warzone (gear huge friendly map and good stating areas for commanders for both sides) Remote Listening Post (very cool design and whoever chooses the map is stating outside, I don't see a problem with this as commander's office is similar) Imperial Plaza (cool design and playable for huges) Simulation Deck (why did this one get dropped? Very balanced unique mirror map, feels like it was made for minis) Peaceful City (great balanced map and still has a place on the list until something better comes along)
Some of the new maps from Jedi Catrographer's latest pack will hopefully be great additions and it is worth it to make at least one map from a new map pack land on the restricted list to keep the game going
As well as dropping: Mining colony upper (unfortunately all of the latest MoM maps are not playable for huges which for me means not playable for restricted list) Rhen Var Citadel (actually quite difficult to manoeuvre hugs around on, as well as limited protection from lancer teams when stating on one side) Great Library (as cool as this one is, huges actually cannot move past their half of the board) Cloud City (can huges actually start on this map at all?)
I would swap peaceful city for cloud city. Mining colony upper for Imperial Plaza Rhen Var for Alien Warzone And great Library for Simulation deck
Would have to change the name of force locals to "Coruscant"
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