a trade off for more hitpoints, better survivability, same attack, accurrate shot, wrist cable, lower cost, for less damage. yeah boba is better.... like a lot better.

Didn't use bait and switch, wrist cable or quick draw all day. Very situational, but could come in handy.

That being said I feel like I know a thing or two about Cad Bane.

Boba is better overall.

But just the fact that this conversation is happening means he's kind of ridiculously good. Cad Bane is one of the best pieces in the game. Now Boba is.

Yes, more output from Cad Bane, but I often find that accurate is more important. Not to mention you can hit 3 targets instead of 2 (sometimes very useful).


btw - it's same attack vs uniques only. Boba has +2 vs non-uniques.

Boba is really good that's for sure but I don't feel he is too much. What makes him that much better is the access he has to support. I feel like he pushes the boundaries so to speak but it's perfectly fine for me. On his own he is solid but it's the support that makes him really good.

this argument is flawed as it is a team/support based game. who cares what he does by himself, if he is pushing the boundaries because of what he has access to then that is a problem he is fringe after all.

that being said i am glad you openly admit that this piece pushing the boundaries is fine with you. sometimes pieces will have to approach the boundaries to keep the game fresh, its when they actually push the boundaries that it becomes a problem. is he a problem... probably not yet, will he become a problem... most likely

I don't know if I agree that he's likely to become "a problem." He's a high-profile power piece. That means that at least for the next several sets, the design team and playtesters will be extremely careful to test any support with and against this piece. That's just how that process works. Where mistakes tend to be made, so far, is with mid-range and cheap support pieces that have unforeseen synergies with each other (i.e Daala + Snowtrooper Officer + Zygerrian Slaver). So my expectation would be that the nature of this piece means that anything likely to make it a problem will be heavily tested, greatly lessening that possibility. The fact that this conversation is happening also makes it extremely likely that anything that will help Boba will be looked at very carefully.

And yes, I think it's fine that he's in the same class as Cad Bane, maybe even better in certain circumstances. It's better for the game if people have choices to fill a role in a particular squad, and most of the comments seem to indicate that that's what's happening here. I would expect to see a lot of Boba for a while yet, because he's new and people want to see what he does. But I don't see Boba replacing Cad over time. I think they will both see play, because they are the elite Fringe shooters in the game.

If by swapping you mean bait and switch that combo does not work since the wookiees are not fringe.

I was the person who came up with the initial design concept for this Boba (and then the rest of the design team had their input as well, of course). My intention from the start was to give a viable alternative to Cad Bane. Everyone knows who Boba Fett is (and most people like him and want him to be good)...but Cad Bane? Only people who know (and like) the CW TV show are fans of him. So just from a flavor and enjoyment perspective, I wanted him to at least compete with Cad. Really, other than Cad, there were no decent high-cost Fringe shooters available in the game. So there was definitely room for a new piece.

I honestly think that the stronger choice in many squads is going to be Mira + help, since Boba is 1/4 of your squad. He's certainly not an auto-include, but he is good. That was on purpose.

I don't know, I still think a lot of this is knee-jerk reaction so far. I can only speak for myself, but the reason I played him on Saturday was because he's one of my favorite pieces and I wanted a chance to play him in a tournament. He's the new hotness, and he's a pile of fun to use.

I'll give some explanation of what went into his design, since I was the one who came up with the original stats and direction for this piece (though obviously the other designers had plenty of input as well). In the end, if Boba AFH is bad for the game, then it's my fault. Here is what I said in one of my posts in the design thread: "My whole intention with this piece is to make a shooter piece that challenges Cad Bane for table time. Give people another option for a high-powered fringe shooter, because right now there is no other. Zam BH is cool, but she's not really a shooter so much, and she plays very differently." Until Boba, did we have another powerful shooter piece other than Cad? I don't think so. I wanted Boba to be a powerful Fringe shooter option--as he should be, because he's Boba Fett.

A quick comparison of the 2 pieces:

Cad
--high-damage mobile shooter at +16
--decent survivability (stealth, evade) and Flight
--non-Accurate
--Stealth: dominant vs non-accurate shooters because he can almost never be shot from long distances

Boba
--solid-damage mobile shooter at +16 (less dmg than Cad)
--better survivability (more hp, evade, B&S) and Flight
--Accurate
--non-Stealth: constantly in danger vs non-accurate shooters, because any LOS will work as long as nobody else is closer

It seems to me that they're about equal. If he does edge Cad out, then I think it's probably the Accurate factor.

I think it's also worth noticing that when V-Set 8 was in development, there were almost no accurate shooters being played at all (other than sometimes NR Han). Everyone was turning to Cad or Jaq or Rex/Dash (ie, non-accurate but high-damage) for their main shooters. That's because, as powerful as Accurate Shot was, nobody was valuing it as much as more attacks and more damage. So making an Accurate shooter with lower damage output for his cost seemed like a fair trade. For example, Atton and Boba both do 60dmg/round...but Atton has better tricks (override!) and Force Points and Pilot and costs a lot less.


If Cad and Boba are not fairly equal as they are now, then I'm not sure what would solve the problem...
...Lose Accurate? Dude, it's Boba Fett...he's gotta have Accurate. And besides, it's something that differentiates them.

...Lower stats?
--100hp? The only adult Boba with less than 100hp is Enforcer, who is 38pts and was never really a strong piece (maybe with Tarpals for double-missiles). Every other adult Boba has either 110 or 120 hp.
--10 Att? The lowest attack score for an adult Boba is +10 on Mercenary, who also has BH4 and Cunning, so a natural +18 in many cases. So 10 was too low if we wanted him to see table time at 50pts.
--19 Def? Boba Merc has 19 Def, but every other Boba has 20 Def. Furthermore, Cad has 19 Def, so there had to be some difference.

If it is a matter of Boba having too many SAs (Wrist Cable, Bait and Switch, Quick Draw), those were added after the fact, for flavor's sake. Originally he had a token CE that didn't really do much (it just kept him from getting Twin in Seps and Mandos), but then we chose Single-Shot Blaster instead. And FWIW, the 3 SAs I mentioned above didn't come up in any of my games at the Vassal Regional the other day; they're situational at best. IMHO, they could be completely dropped from the character and they wouldn't lower his cost. That's because we built him as a primary shooter who has some cool tricks from time to time.

We could've given him GMA Double (instead of Triple), but then he would truly never get used. Nobody will pay 50pts for a 40dmg/round accurate shooter. Even NR Old Man Han has Disruptive, Cunning, and NTMTO (and he's probably been replaced by the new NR Han).


So if we missed the mark on this piece, then I don't understand how we could've hit the mark (true to Boba Fett as a shooter and yet comparative to Cad) and still come out okay. My goal from the start was to cost him at 50pts, because that was what the original (and classic) Boba was costed at. So if the problem is that he costs 50pts then I'll take the blame, because that was my idea. Beyond that, I'm not sure what else would need changing. By the way, the design thread for this piece was 9 pages long. Most pieces take 3 or 4 pages. He got plenty of playtests too. We spent a lot of time brainstorming flavorful ways to represent him, and a lot of time on Bait and Switch. It's not like he was an un-tested rush-job or a piece that slipped under the radar.

Honestly, he's one of my favorite pieces in the game; he's fun to use, it takes skill to get the most out of him, and he oozes flavor all over the place.

Hey, I think y'all did a great job with him! The only problem I have with him is that I have heard people say he was supposed to compete with cad bane for table time. With a Triple Greater Mobile Accurate why would I ever choose Cad, the higher damage ceiling? That just isnt enough for me. Super Stealth squads are the only exception I can think of when I would choose Cad over Boba.

Sure quick draw is situational, but it is flight and, more importantly, strafe defense... That is pure gold. As for Bait and Switch, even if it is situational it is still really good. Wrist cable is quite a bit more obscure and probably the least note worthy. If an ability doesn't come up at a tourney though, I cant just discount it from the character when deciding his opportunity cost.

Any who, he is a great piece, but I think he is in a league of his own...

I think Boba is the natural choice now, with people feeling that they need an accurate shooter. It hasn't always been so, and if the meta shifts again and accuracy isn't so important, the choice is a closer one. I think Boba is a good design because he's been such a prominent figure in Star Wars lore.