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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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Set vs Set tournament
Imperial Entanglements - TheHutts vs Jedi Academy - CorellianComedian
Post your squads and explain why you will win. Everyone else - vote publicly for who you think will win. I'll track votes in this top post. (I reserve the right to exclude votes based on suspected sock puppet accounts.)
If anyone plans to play this match, please post that you plan to. Others may want to wait to see a play report before voting.
If both players agree to play this out instead of having the community vote, then the vote will be ignored and the results of that match will stand.
Voting ends December 23, 2015, 11:00pm EST (New York time).
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/30/2008 Posts: 2,093
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Luke is much less scary than BANE (the last squad IE dispatched) so I think IE takes this one as well.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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Bane had no defense at all - just a pile of HP. Luke has tons of Force points and Leia Rerolls for Lightsaber Defense. Not saying he'll win, but he has more staying power.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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FlyingArrow wrote:Bane had no defense at all - just a pile of HP. Luke has tons of Force points and Leia Rerolls for Lightsaber Defense. Not saying he'll win, but he has more staying power. Luke has less movement though. Can only do 40 on the move. I think Thrawn needs to be patient, but really he holds all the cards. Big shooters are the biggest problem for Luke, and this squad has two big shooters. Arica can do 80 at +13 and Dash can do 120 at +10. Just need to keep out of Luke's range, and shoot at whatever's available. --Imperial Imperial Entanglements-- 71 Darth Vader, Legacy of the Force 32 Thrawn (Mitth'raw'nuruodo) 31 Arica 28 Dash Rendar, Renegade Smuggler 15 Lobot, Computer Liaison Officer 5 Imperial Dignitary 5 Stormtrooper 12 Mouse Droid x4 (199pts. 11 activations) I'd take a map like Theed with doors and not too much cover in gambit.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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How does Dash get to 120? And Arica to 80? I have them at 80 and 40 but might be missing something.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 2/16/2009 Posts: 1,485
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Extra from Vader. Though hitting Luke with a +10 seems rather difficult to do.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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Yep. Thanks.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/5/2009 Posts: 2,240 Location: Akron Ohio, just south of dantooine.
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FlyingArrow wrote:Bane had no defense at all - just a pile of HP. Luke has tons of Force points and Leia Rerolls for Lightsaber Defense. Not saying he'll win, but he has more staying power. Luke has only 20 less than Bane. He is much harder to hit, but he can't kill in one "on the move attack", which means whomever he stops by will either unload on him or blink away. Gotta go with IE.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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IE.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 8/30/2014 Posts: 1,055
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Gentlemen, gentlemen, please, give the Grand Master some room.
You are all justifiably inclined to vote for the Grand Admiral over the Grand Master, but while Thrawn holds all the cards, the fact remains that he has brought a deck of cards to a tank-fight.
--The Return of the Grand Master-- 115 Grand Master Luke Skywalker 38 Kol Skywalker 25 Leia Skywalker, Jedi Knight 21 Felucian x3
(199pts. 6 activations)
First off, Dash Rendar vs. Luke Skywalker. At best, Dash has +10 Attack. Statistically speaking, there is approximately a 54% chance that Dash won't hit more than twice each round - and an 80% chance that he won't hit more than thrice.
That's when Luke is out in the open.
With two Lightsaber Defenses + free rerolls, the probability of Dash getting much damage through is very low. (each LSDefense has a 75% chance of working, which is a 56% chance of both working and 6.25% chance of both failing).
Now, Arica vs. Luke Skywalker. Arica has a much more respectable +13 Attack. That puts her at slightly better than a 50% chance of hitting. However, there is still a 60% chance that she will not hit more than twice. With both of these, Luke is either out in the open, or they are right next to Luke.
In both cases, the chance of hitting Luke goes waaay down if he has cover.
Now, another important factor is that both main shooters have essentially two lives. If Luke gets an opportunity to go at one of them just once (with his impressive 14 square range), they have 30 HP left. Leia and Kol can both deal 30+ Damage on the move. Outacting with Master Tactician allows IE a lot of flexibility in evading my characters, but he's still got to be pretty careful.
Also, Thrawn doesn't have Mas to back him up. If I can last long enough to kill the mice, the mobility is gone. In addition, there are only 3 good swappers - IE can burn the dignitary or the stormie to save Arica or Dash, or can bring in Vader to beat down on Luke. However, Vader would lose a Djem So fight VERY quickly.
Finally, map strategy. On Theed (TheHutt's map), there's not much cover in gambit, (only two squares of Low Objects), but also keep in mind that JA can push IE out of Gambit - Dash and Arica need to stay away from Luke, and there's no way Vader can accomplish anything by taking on Luke and Kol at the same time. (with Master Speed, I'll beat him to gambit anyways). He also needs to protect Thrawn, either by locking him in a closet with Lobot or having Vader nearby to discourage Luke from dashing over (up to 20 squares) to kill him. Thrawn can't swap himself, so if Luke bases him, he's gone unless IE can kill Luke before he activates again. Essentially, either Override or a beatstick will be tied up protecting Thrawn, or I have a chance to rush in and take him down.
Now, my map for this round would be Rancor Pen. If TheHutts chooses left side, I have a protected area where I can park the Felucians if I need be to keep my act disadvantage as minimal as possible, and I have slightly-sheltered gambit. If TheHutts chooses right side, I have much better protected gambit but won't be able to hide the extra acts as well. The map is also wide open with little interference from difficult terrain, so Lobot should be near Thrawn in a closet, otherwise Luke could potentially make a run at him.
In either case, there should be room to keep Leia out of the way, and Luke can soak up the damage with ease. Kol isn't all that spectacular, but he's still really chewy, and he'll give Vader a run for his money considering he's 24 points down. The Felucians can hide somewhere to keep my acts up, since IE should still lose a couple of acts every round - we'll be almost even by round 4 - or they can just get in the way. They can also (potentially) Force Blast a Mouse.
However, for the record, I will say that if Luke goes down in melee combat, it will be because the Dignitary rolled a critical hit and Luke had used all his FP on deflecting Dash.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 10/17/2010 Posts: 3,682 Location: Beggers Canyon Tatooine
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JA never should have made it past CW Clone Wars would whip 'em all
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/5/2009 Posts: 2,240 Location: Akron Ohio, just south of dantooine.
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Very compelling arguments CC. However, for Luke to get free re-rolls Leia must be within 6 of him. With Thrawn swap way out activating JA Leia could be the first to go, or Kol, or all your Felucians. Dosen't matter. What will matter is Luke will face a literal hail of blaster fire, and when he is out of FP's (which should be fairly soon) he will go down hard.
For your team Arica, with sniper and Blaster Barrage might kill all the Felucians in one act. I'd be inclined to quad attack someone, however. Dash will be attacking six times. That would fill Leia full of plasma.
I'd like JA to win, so it would not be TheHutts vs. TheHutts final, just can't see it.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/30/2008 Posts: 2,093
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On Theed, IE sets up in either of the rooms that are adjacent to the gambit room (they don't care about gambit in this matchup). Now if IE rolls reserves in either of the first 2 rounds it is just plain old game over, but assuming they don;t, they just play the override game. Close the door in rd 1, after JA goes in rd 2 open the door, shoot, shoot, shoot, grip, then in rd 3 win init and close the door again. Luke can't put pressure on both doors and you can put thrawn in one of the corners and have 3 guys around him so Luke still can't get to him even if he manages to get around that somehow for a round. I Am pretty sure that Luke will die before 20 rds are up and once all the JA non-luke guys are dead then you might be able to push him out of gambit if he ever leaves to try a different door.
Now on Rancor Pen (shouldn't this be rhen var as I thought you had rhen var for the CW matchup) it is more difficult but the long lines mean that even in gambit you get shot up although you do have a shot to get to Thrawn if Thrawn isn't careful (again assuming no reserves cuz reserves gets you the dreaded 10 mouse dump).
And Rhen Var is the same (only worse) as theed using the override and activation advantage.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 8/30/2014 Posts: 1,055
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urbanjedi wrote:Now on Rancor Pen (shouldn't this be rhen var as I thought you had rhen var for the CW matchup) I did indeed have Rhen Var; I thought we had to stick with one map the whole time, but noticed others were not, so I went with Rancor Pen this time. Not sure it'll affect the outcome much, but if anybody prefers, I will make my stand on Rhen Var.
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Rank: Wookiee Hunter AT-ST Groups: Member
Joined: 12/21/2009 Posts: 55
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Be interested to see someone play this out. I think Grand Master Luke could last long enough to handle the enemy. I'll see if someone plays it out, but I'm not counting out JA yet. Not casting an official vote right now either.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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IE gets my vote, too. But as with the other half (due to the lack of comments beforehand), extension granted until 11:00 tonight.
Looks like it will end up being a Christmas final of TheHutts vs TheHutts unless there's a big shake-up.
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Rank: Wookiee Hunter AT-ST Groups: Member
Joined: 12/21/2009 Posts: 55
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JA.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 2/16/2009 Posts: 1,485
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I think Jedi Academy has a solid chance because it's gonna take a lot to hit Luke. I vote Jedi Academy.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
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Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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4-3 IE wins.
Really would have liked to see this one played out by someone.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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I played this for fun on Rancor Pen.
Imperials took the side with protected gambit. I locked Thrawn and CLobot in the room on that side, since there weren't any other crucial doors. Round 1 Luke went into gambit, but spent a force point to get far enough that I had to swap to get shots at him, with Kol and Leia nearby. I swapped in Arica, and double/twinned Luke - she only hit twice, including a reroll, but Luke missed all his Lightsaber Defense saves, so she got 40 damage through.
Thrawn auto-won init, and Vader got in front of Arica to protect her, and used Force Grip 2 on Luke. He was out of range of Kol's Throw and the Felucian's Blast, but Leia Threw at him, landing a crit and putting 40 damage on. Luke also speeded up to him and put 60 damage on him with another crit, while Kol took point to try and make me shoot at him. Arica swapped in for Vader, and double twinned Luke adjacent, while Dash also triple twinned him, and he was gone with Dash's last shot.
Thrawn won init and Arica took an AoO from Kol to get in position for a barrage, where she was able to hit Leia, Kol, and two Felucians. She defeated the two Felucians, while she put 20 on Leia and 40 on Kol. Kol went in for Vader, and used Lightsaber Precision, but missed twice. Leia threw at Arica, and missed then crit, so the remaining Felucian was able to finish her with Force Blast. Vader put 90 on Kol, finishing him, then Dash put 60 on Leia, bringing her down to 10. Dash also picked up gambit.
Thrawn won init, and Dash hit Leia on the 4th try, taking her last ten hit points. Game over.
In hindsight I probably could have played Luke more conservatively and built up force points, but if I'd done that, the Imperial player could get Vader into first round gambit and have Arica and Dash covering him from well back. I'm probably biased, but I think it's a very tough matchup for NR - Luke was unlucky with his saves in the first round, but the NR also rolled three crits.
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