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Rank: Droid Starfighter in Walking Mode Groups: Member
Joined: 12/7/2008 Posts: 48
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Well, since the debate seems to be over, and GOWK is now out of DCI legal play. What would it take to bring him back? As far as I can tell there are 3 overall options: Change the rules of play so he isn't as powerful, Change GOWK himself to make him more inline, create a new figure(s) that balance him out, or some combination of the three.
Not all of these are practical or even likely. Probably the most likely answer is that a new figure with a new ability comes out which brings him in balance, and this is all speculation. If you want to post an idea, try to post 3 things about an idea: What it is, how it would work against GOWK, and what it would do to the rest of the game. Another important thing to note is the viability of the option.
One thing to really consider is how much of a change is really needed to return him to DCI play. There is a question of whether a true nerf needs to be done, or if something that can take the edge off his effectiveness would do.
I think most of the possible options of changing GOWK himself have probably already been discussed; drop MOTF 2 and Mettle, change Soresu to a 16 save, or drop soresu to LS defense. Each of these will reduce his overall effectiveness to a different degree, and make his defenses easier to get through.
As far as rules changes go, Mettle no longer stacking has been discussed, but it won't change the percentage of his making the save very much. They could make a change that you can't use the force to make more than 1 reroll. There aren't that many characters out there that this would really affect, since any character that could would have to have at least MOTF 2. I think Loda with evade would be the most effected by it. GOWK would still have a very high chance of making his save though, but perhaps add that with removing mettle might make a difference.
In terms of figures, I'm still working that out a bit. But something that can reduce his defense, along with something that has a lot of attacks which could overwhelm his soresu, or a new fringe disruptive. A new crack gunner or a cheap direct damage could also work.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/26/2009 Posts: 272
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you had to say it didn't you, bring him back, after all this, after all the flaming...can't we be free of GOWK discussions just for alittle.....good, bad, hypothetical, whatever. my brain hurts.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/5/2009 Posts: 239 Location: Germany
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I never have visit a forum, where the people deal with only one subject ... GOWK!
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 5/10/2008 Posts: 184 Location: Middle of an Albertan field
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When he is banned, I can imagine no figure that can be made to unbreak him. Anything that hurts him will hurt the many other pieces with Mettle, or MotF, or even Melee. Once he's gone, he's gone.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/30/2008 Posts: 1,290 Location: Stow Ohio, just north of Dantooine (vacay on Ando)
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GOWK IS A 4 LETTER WORD WE SHOULD NOT SPEAK
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/7/2008 Posts: 396
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New figures, definitely. Maybe an improved Disruptive ability. Maybe a more efficient Dooku with Makashi Style Mastery. More characters with Force Defense, possibly. We even already have cheap direct damage pieces. The possiblities are endless and I bet we will see him in the near future as the game grows.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/21/2009 Posts: 406
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+1 to Defender390 for not using the G word in his last post
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/6/2009 Posts: 908 Location: Felucia, near the Ancient Abyss
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Doogle126 wrote:+1 to Defender390 for not using the G word in his last post you mean He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named?
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/21/2009 Posts: 406
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Him-That-We-Do-Not-Speak-Of is a more appropriate term
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/6/2009 Posts: 908 Location: Felucia, near the Ancient Abyss
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Doogle126 wrote:Him-That-We-Do-Not-Speak-Of is a more appropriate term
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Rank: Droid Starfighter in Walking Mode Groups: Member
Joined: 12/7/2008 Posts: 48
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Ok. So possible figures or at least abilities that would allow He-Who-Has-Now-Been-Banned back.
Dark Side Spirits [Exar Kun, Freedon Nadd, Marka Ragnos]: Cost 10 Stats: HP-, Def -, Atk -, Dam -. Special Abilities: Dark Side Spirit; Ignores characters and terrain. Cannot open doors. Cannot attack or be damaged, and does not count as a legal target, the nearest enemy, or adjacent. Not subject to commander effects. Does not provide cover. At the start of the skirmish, choose one unique enemy character. The chosen enemy gains Dark Force Renewal 1 (every time this character activates it loses 1 force point) and Internal Strife while this character remains within 4 squares. A character within 6 squares can spend X number of Force points to defeat this character, where x is the characters current number of Force Points. This effect replaces that character's attacks).
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 2/13/2009 Posts: 143 Location: Southern Illinois
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where is it posted that GOWK is banned. the only place i see it is on bloomilk. could someone tell me where they got their information?
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Rank: Hailfire Droid Groups: Member
Joined: 4/29/2009 Posts: 37 Location: Kannapolis, NC
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/29/2008 Posts: 194 Location: Minnesota
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Cheer up guys it's not a funeral. The bearded one can be played with for 10 more days. Make them count!
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Rank: Droid Starfighter in Walking Mode Groups: Member
Joined: 12/7/2008 Posts: 48
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Ok, another couple of ideas.
Black Sun Thug: 12 Points HP: 30 Def: 14 Atk: 6 Dam 10 Special Abilities: Crack Shot [This character's Attacks can not be negated or redirected.]
Mon Calamari Black Sun Vigo: 23 Points HP: 50 Def: 17 Atk: 8 Dam 20 Special Abilities: Distraction [Special Abilities used in response to this character's attacks with a Save of 11 are now Save 16.]. Twin Attack, Mobile Attack
Commander Effect: Followers within 6 squares with Stealth gain Distraction [Special Abilities used in response to this character's attacks with a Save 11 are now Save 16.]
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 12/11/2008 Posts: 1,122
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Basically, what I'm hearing is that we need a way to get around SSM. More and better Direct Damage pieces would do the job nicely, I think. BTW, I saw this suggestion for an SA to counter He Who Will Remain Unnamed on the WOTC boards and I like it: Superior Disintegration: If this character targets an enemy with Soresu Style Mastery, that piece is automatically Disintegrated Best SA ever!
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/4/2008 Posts: 1,441
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mercenary_moose wrote:Basically, what I'm hearing is that we need a way to get around SSM. More and better Direct Damage pieces would do the job nicely, I think. Coming from some people. Certainly not from me. More or better direct damage isn't the answer and will not allow for GOWK to come off the banned list. Some kind of errata from the Design team at WotC would be required for him to come off the list. Anything less than that is a pipe dream from my perspective. And considering that they had the floor rules a month and a half before posting them, and watched the regional results carefully before approving the ban, I would say the odds of an errata are also pretty much 0. I think you all need to face it, odds are GOWK will never be legal.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 11/3/2008 Posts: 498 Location: somewhere over the rainbow (a rainbow in Indiana)
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maybe we will see a new G**K in Galaxy at War ....
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Rank: Droid Starfighter in Walking Mode Groups: Member
Joined: 12/7/2008 Posts: 48
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billiv15 wrote: I think you all need to face it, odds are GOWK will never be legal.
If that's true it's one of the biggest tragedies of the game then, and another issue I have with the ban. I personally believe that a ban should at most be a stop gap measure until a true fix can be implemented. If the ban IS the fix, then it only adds to my hesitation regarding the ban in the first place. Because not only will he not truly be fixed or dealt with, it also sets a precedence to ban other pieces. But at the moment any fix is really up to Rob to deal with. He's a great piece and with some balance has a lot to give the Republic as a faction, I'd hate to see the potential he has wasted in tournament play.
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Rank: Dark Trooper Phase III Groups: Member
Joined: 11/1/2008 Posts: 24
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xpraider wrote:... He-Who-Has-Now-Been-Banned... Ooh, I like that nickname Really, I don't see how a new figure can fix He-Who-Has-Now-Been-Banned without breaking other things. And why spend a spot on a figure to fix He-Who-Has-Now-Been-Banned when that spot can go to a new Kenobi who doesn't have the same problems of He-Who-Has-Now-Been-Banned. I am hopeful that the precendent set by the Elite AT-AT Driver indicates that something similar might happen to He-Who-Has-Now-Been-Banned that would allow the figure to be playable in DCI.
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