So there has been some talk about the Togorian Black Sun Vigo being an extreme NPE and possibly Broken. I believe the fix may be simpler than that. While looking at McNizzle's Squad

--Noob Tube--
34 Nom Anor
24 Togorian Black Sun Vigo
23 Nautolan Black Sun Vigo
11 Givin Black Sun Slicer
108 Gran Raider x27

(200pts. 31 activations)

Which is BRILLIANT, btw, the Togorian isn't really the issue here as much as the Black Sun SA given out by the Nautolan BSV

Black Sun

Card Text

If a character whose name contains Xizor or Vigo is in the same squad, this character gains Grenades 10

Glossary Text

If it is in the same squad as a character whose name contains Vigo or Xizor, this character gains the Grenades 10 special ability. The character retains this bonus ability even if the other character is not currently in play (defeated, delayed entry to the battle map, and so on).

Characters whose names contain Black Sun also count as Black Sun for purposes of effects but do not gain the other benefits of the Black Sun ability.

What if, we simply changed the Glossary and card text to say "If a Unique character whose name contains Xizor or Vigo is in the same squad, this character gains Grenades 10?

That would mean you would have to add at least 30pts to this squad, reducing the Acts by at least 7 to get this particular desired effect. Yes I know, we currently don't have any Unique BSV characters, but that opens some ideas up for designers and puts the cost check in so this can't or wont happen again. Also, maybe put a within 6 range on Grenade Launcher. Just my 2 Cents.

Above all else, please keep the discussions civil and on Topic. I will ask swinefeld to lock the post if someone starts attacking designers, squads, or other players, even passive-aggressively. Thank You

Alexi Garyn
Ziro the Hutt
Guri, Black Sun Enforcer

Black Sun Vigo SA (counts as name contains)

while play testing we brought the "problem" that could arise with the togorian BSV in a squad, we were of course ignored.

There is just so many things that are currently being played that could deal with this squad. DoS with Mira eats this squad. Bastila takes the boom away. I think Jangalore fairs well as does a Resistance squad. Don't get me wrong, it is a tad ridiculous, but I like the concept. I don't know if it should be "Poggle Stomped", but something should definitely change with it. I gave my example of change. I'm not in favor of pendulum swing changes, but "altering the deal" just might work.

You would have 18 Thugs instead of 27 Raiders

I just don't see the need in this game for a swarm of 3-8point pieces being more competitve than rock squads.

9 + points, and I can start seeing more of a reason, but I myself, would not be comfortable unless the swarms cost more than gambit.

To me, and I could be a loner here, but Having pieces that cost less than gambit, who can be competitve, and its actually less rewarding to kill one, than it is to collect gambit, is not good for the game.

I get that Force Sense, or whatever it is, takes care of them. But should we now start adding Force Sense to every squad we have just to make sure we counter these guys?

OR Cheapest piece 17 Points Covenant Defender

The next playable one is 28 points.

Sith have ZERO

Mandos- Bardin Jusik, 36 points

Depa Bilabba - 29 points

Seps - ZERO

Rebel -Princess Leia is 14.... But I would say Chirrut is the most competitive, 22

Imps - Imperial Sov Protector - 25 points

NR Leia, 16 points, but many more worth their cost ( definitely most effective faction )

Vong - ZERO

And last Fringe, which everyone has, 28 points. Well worth the cost tho.

No reason for this to be something poeple have to prep for, and spend 1/8 of their squad to make Mirra work in it. While I do agree, she is well worth the cost, If were going to force people to run something against it, you may as well make a 5 point Fringe with 2 Fp and Force Sense, that way they can use the rest of the points to build their squad.

Because lets face it, if you are not running bastilla or running some one with Force Sense, you lose majority of the time.

I vote someone play it that way, and see how it works. Don't use Super Stealth or bastilla, as everyone agrees those will work. Melee squads take the biggest hit.

I still don't like 18 pieces being able to grenades 30 12 squares out, who only cost 4 points. Easier to deal with, still ridiculous to face.

One big reason I tweaked my GenCon squad to include Mira was for this squad, and super stealth dalaa trooper builds that I thought I might potentially face as well as the fact that I also had limited door control options and she helped with that as well as being a great secondary attacker. The Grenades aren't really that big IMO since you should make the save half of the time and these guys have zero staying power. Super stealth and self destruct though makes it a really potent cocktail and I wouldn't mind if there were a way to make it so that there were a few less of them to deal with however that may be accomplished, though Caedus' idea seems pretty reasonable.

I would not be sad to see the Togorian banned.

10 Grans and 10 Klat Thugs wouldn't make much difference.