So, lets read the wording for Jolt.


Jolt - An enemy hit by this character's attack is considered activated this round; save 11. Huge and larger characters ignore this effect


Rend 20 - If both of his attacks hit the same adjacent enemy, this character's second attack gets +20 Damage)


So.... Damage does not go through... And there may be somewhere I am missing to look this up... But. The Twi'lek Black Sun Vigo is a great example of my question.

Lets say he attacks enemy X. And they are not activated. So right now, he is +8 for 10.... Well.... If he "Hits" the target.... The target makes the save... Does the save happen before damage is determined?

If so.... The Twi'lek would actually do the 30 damage.... Not the 10, b/c the character would be activated.....

My thought is like this right now.

Attack enemy... Attack is successful. Step 2. Would either be the Jolt roll, or assigning damage, OR, they would happen "In the same step" If its the "same step" as the controlling player, I determine order of events, And I could force them to make the roll before assigning damage, and if they failed the roll... They would be activated, making my damage increase by 20.


Why do I think it works like this? Well... If it doesn't... Then that means Rend 10, or any other ability like it, would be worse than we thought.

Rend says if both attacks HIT, +10 on the 2nd. ( Same type of ability, it triggers on a hit, not damage being taken) So, that means, damage doesn't have to go threw... Just the successful attack. If the 1st question is a negative... And jolt doesn't trigger till after damage is assigned... Then the Rend damage would not be assigned till after all other damage was assigned... Which means someone who had say Dam Red 20.... Would not take ANY damage from a Double attack from an adjacent bosk.

Attack 1 hit, 20 dam, negated. Attack 2 hit, 20 damage, negated. Rend is now kicked in after assigning damage, and now you get +10 more damage to assign, but it would be negated by my dam reduction, because it would be a 3rd time assigning damage.


Right now it looks like the Rend 10 damage is assigned to Bosk BEFORE damage is actually given to the character, which means there is a step where "when hit by" is triggered and before "damage received." The wording on Rend10, and Jolt are the same, as both trigger on a successful hit, not when a character takes damage.


So. The question is. If I have Jolt and Opp, and I shoot an unactivated character... Would I get the Opp Damage( not the attack boost, because the attack happened before the save) if the character fails the jolt save?

See:
http://swmgamers.com/SWM/Rules/ResolvingEffects.html

Jolt triggers when hit, so step 10.
Damage is calculated and applied in step 12. (Preliminary calculation is in step 5 so both players know what might happen, but final calculation is in step 12.)

Looks like, yes, if Jolt activates a character then the damage bonus from Opportunist applies.

And in general, anything that is a damage bonus (i.e. +10) would be added to the regular damage from the attack. Anything applied as separate damage would not use a plus sign (+).

I would assume that it does NOT work.

In step 5, you have to determine all the appropriate attack (and damage) barring "crits or later adjustments"

I wouldn't think that a static ability is an adjustment. Things like poison, or vicious, or rend, etc would be what would be a later adjustment.

Either you are activated or you aren't when you are attacked. You can't be both.

Now if you had a twin (or double) and they failed the jolt, the opp would kick in on any additional attacks.

Also, fairly sure this was ruled to not work in WOTC days, although it was long enough ago, that it might have been on the WOTC boards so unless Dave happens to have it locked away somewhere.

So what step is it when you "hit" someone with an attack? Because As controlling character on a turn, if anything happens in the same step, I choose the order that it hppens.


Think of it like a door, and override. They both happen at the end of the your turn, But I am allowed to choose the order... So my "R2" could end next to an adjacent closed door... I could determine the door is open at the end of his turn, and then choose to use my override to open/close another door...


And as far as being activated or not activated.... You are NOT activated when I would make the attack ( no bonus to your attack rating) BUT, if I am able to MAKE you roll jolt, before damage is assigned, and you ail your jolt, I can't see any ruling not allowing the DAMAGE to be applied to the attack. Again, here is how I imagine it in Step form

Step 1. Declare attack.

Step 2. Roll my attack.

Step 3 Attack Hits

Now this is where the question lies.. Do I assign Damage Immediately after the hit? Or is there a step in between... If there is a step in between... Then I absolutely can force someone to roll jolt before damage is assigned.

And if they fail the jolt.. they are then activated.... And I assign damage. (Timeout for a quick Rend Update)

Rend says if they hit BOTH attacks, the 2nd does more damage. So there is a step SOMEWHERE in this game, that allows your damage to be increased AFTER an attack is hit.

Back to the Jolt/Opp scenario. So if I then assign my damage, after the jolt roll is made ( jolt triggers on a HIT, not on damage) How could I not increase my damage, just like Rend does on a hit?


If this does not work... Than how the heck does Evade work?

Evade - When hit by an attack from a nonadjacent enemy, this character takes no damage with a save of 11

So, this means damage is not assigned, so they HAVE to make the save before damage. Or is the damage assigned, then they Evade, then they go back and take the damage off?

We've always played Opportunist kicks in if the enemy is Jolted active.
That's how I killed Etienne's Durge on Speeder at the Chicago Regional last year.
It's also been done to me plenty of times at Regionals and GenCon.


Edit: Sorry, I think I've missed the point of the O.P.

See:
http://swmgamers.com/SWM/Rules/ResolvingEffects.html

Click the link and read the steps. It should answer many of your questions.

Based on this, it looks as tho if you jolted a character with cunning, You would only get the attack bonus, not the damage bonus.

and on the flip, if you shot them, and they were jolted, you would get the OPP damage bonus, but not the OPP attack bonus.

Thats what I am seeing right now... Anyone else see anything different?

Rend is different.

Rend is bonus damage. It isn't calculated in step 5 when you are calculating attack and/or damage. Very similar to Poison, or Chagrain Merc Commander.

Opportunist is just a regular modifier of your attack/dam. I do not believe it is checked at any other time than when you declare your attack, as you are determining all that stuff in step 5.

I lean toward "no" you don't get the Opportunist damage on that same attack. Mainly because I don't think anyone ever has (or would) take away the damage for Cunning that they would have declared in step 5.

It ultimately comes down to whether activation status is something that qualifies for a "later adjustment" of damage declared in step 5. Considering how popular the TBSV is, this has certainly been asked before but I can't find a previous Q&A about it. Anyone else?

Re: Rend
Each attack's damage is calculated separately. In the first attack, Rend would not be included in step 5's calculation. In the second attack, Rend would be included in the step 5 calculation (assuming the first one hit). If the second one hits, you get the Rend bonus - if it doesn't then moot point.

But there are abilities and situations (like crits) that change the damage declared in step 5.

I'll take it to Rules Comm. It won't take long.