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Bringing the Bane! 500 point squad Options
adidamps2
Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2009 2:41:18 AM
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--Bring the Bane! --
82 Darth Bane
76 Darth Krayt
75 Mandalore the Ultimate
68 Mandalore the Indomitable
61 Ulic Qel-Droma
42 Darth Nihl
26 Mandalorian Quartermaster
23 Mandalorian Captain
8 R7 Astromech Droid
5 Caamasi Noble
15 Mouse Droid x5
18 Ugnaught Demolitionist x6

(499pts. 21 activations)

I tried to make a squad and take advantage of Darth Banes ability to benifit from CE's...although I'm sure I could have made the point build smaller I figured why not a 500pt squad...

I suppose the main idea here is to use the uggies as body guards (since they are mando's and all mando's now have BG) and have them escort Bane into the fray of combat...and using the Mouse Droids as cover and extended CE's...plus they all count as activations.

Also with Bane being the main beat stick here and using all of the Mandolorian & Sith CE's he can now Mommentum, twin attack and gets a nice +4 attack, and if he happens to roll a crit he gets flurry attack...

so on a sith raged, mommentum charging, lightsaber assualt twin attack!!! against a force user bane will recieve a +28 attack (+4 from qtr master, +4 JH, +4 Mommentum, base 16 attack)! and a whopping 60 damage a swing (30 base damage, +10 mommentum, +10 JH, +10 Sith Rage)

Then once based against a force user Bane can dish out a Triple Twin Sith Raged attack of +24 attack and 50 damage a strike! Even GMLS can't hang with that!

with none of this considering the chance of a crit hit to triger the Flurry attack!

although I am aware of the fact that at 500 points Darth Bane could find himself in a world of hurt...it just seemd like a blast to make and put together...

do you have anything that could it better? I wish the Mando's or Sith had a "booming Voice" type character, or some whay to get bane mighty swing, deadeye or perhaps Oppertunist/cunning...but I don't know how with out mixing factions.
AdmiralAckbar
Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2009 3:19:45 AM
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Looks like fun, just watch out for stuff like flame thrower, Grenades, Missiles, Repulse, cestas, anything that can spread damage because then they will weanken bane along with killing your bodyguards at the same time.
adidamps2
Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2009 3:27:08 AM
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good points and one of the reasons why I ran so many uggies...however I think one the down sides to Bane is his lack of defence and there appears to be an inability to give him any defensive abilities, like stealth or evade...
engineer
Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:36:44 AM
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Only 21 activations for 500 points? You have 5 high cost figures in your squad. At these higher point totals, volume of firepower becomes more important that one figure shooting a lot.

If this is just ment to be a joke squad about boosting up Bane, then well done. You can read and apply CE's.
adidamps2
Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:54:21 AM
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engineer wrote:
Only 21 activations for 500 points? You have 5 high cost figures in your squad. At these higher point totals, volume of firepower becomes more important that one figure shooting a lot.

If this is just ment to be a joke squad about boosting up Bane, then well done. You can read and apply CE's.


I would say it is a yes and no joke squad...and like I stated in my OP, I am aware that Bane could be in a world of hurt in a 500 poiint squad especially one loaded with TBSV's...however I feel that Bane would be able to accomplish most of his mission, as most of who ever he makes contact with won't last long and the other high cost figures can also dish out punishment as well...

not to mention that after looking through the 500 point squads here on BLOOMILK that most fell into the 20-35 activation area with one being a crazy exploding uggie squad of 160+ activations!

I am also open to the discussion of how to improve it...maybe by using a swapper piece or a droid that can carry him into to combat to take advantage of his 6 attacks.

Wysten
Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:01:01 AM
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Looks fun, though generally, Sith are the least prepared to fight at this point level, while Republic and CIS and perhaps even mandos may be the best out there. Just, I imagine bane would die pretty quickly. ><;
adidamps2
Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:10:20 AM
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Evade and GMA would be ideal for him...but I believe the only way to do that would be to have a crazy mixed faction squad...
engineer
Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:14:02 PM
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adidamps2 wrote:
I would say it is a yes and no joke squad...and like I stated in my OP, I am aware that Bane could be in a world of hurt in a 500 poiint squad especially one loaded with TBSV's...however I feel that Bane would be able to accomplish most of his mission, as most of who ever he makes contact with won't last long and the other high cost figures can also dish out punishment as well...

I am also open to the discussion of how to improve it...maybe by using a swapper piece or a droid that can carry him into to combat to take advantage of his 6 attacks.


57 General Grievous, Droid Army Commander
43 Wat Tambor, Techno Union Foreman
36 Darth Sidious
90 IG Lancer Droid x3
27 Lobot
25 Chameleon Droid
23 Commando Droid Captain
18 Super Battle Droid Commander
64 IG-86 Assassin Droid x4
15 Battle Droid Sergeant
12 Gha Nachkt
16 Battle Droid Officer x2
7 R4 Astromech Droid
14 R5 Astromech Droid x2
14 R7 Astromech Droid x2
33 Battle Droid x11
6 Mouse Droid x3

(500pts. 37 activations)

Having all those twin attacks does not matter when you are defeating 3 point battle droids.

I think there might be a Republic squad with clones that does even more damage.
adidamps2
Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:42:26 PM
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other than taking out the uggies quickly that squad will still have a heck of a time hitting the high end pieces...

and although my idea is to maximize Bane he would not be alone, Darth Nihl & Ulic are free to join the fray...and the MtU & MtI are both free to fire from the distance as there is no accurate shooters.

I am not saying that my squad is undefeatable...but i do think it can last and put up a huge fight and last longer than you are giving it credit for...also you assume it appears that a good portion of your droids will not move to attack to get ALL those shots off...

also I would still be open in ways to improve my squad concept.. as I suppose a TBSV or 2 wouldn't hurt...
engineer
Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2009 1:57:22 PM
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adidamps2 wrote:
other than taking out the uggies quickly that squad will still have a heck of a time hitting the high end pieces...

and although my idea is to maximize Bane he would not be alone, Darth Nihl & Ulic are free to join the fray...and the MtU & MtI are both free to fire from the distance as there is no accurate shooters.

I am not saying that my squad is undefeatable...but i do think it can last and put up a huge fight and last longer than you are giving it credit for...also you assume it appears that a good portion of your droids will not move to attack to get ALL those shots off...

also I would still be open in ways to improve my squad concept.. as I suppose a TBSV or 2 wouldn't hurt...

+18 twin for 20 each from the Lancers
+21 twin (maybe double twin if they don't move) for 40 (with the BD Sargent)

What attacks would be high enough?

It's been a while since I've been on Vassal, but I would be up for a match over Thanksgiving to prove a point. Your squad just does not have enough offense.
engineer
Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2009 2:29:53 PM
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--Gen Sky--
55 Grand Master Yoda
47 General Skywalker
27 Lobot
208 Jedi Weapon Master x8
24 Commander Ahsoka
24 Roron Corobb
23 Captain Panaka
23 Clone Commander Bacara
21 The Dark Woman
22 ARF Trooper x2
9 R2-D2, Astromech Droid
8 Mas Amedda
9 Ugnaught Demolitionist x3

(500pts. 23 activations)
This squad would also be fun to play against your above posted squad. JWM's with +19 double for 30 (LA with momentum) and a 26 Def (against adj lightsabers or in cover).
Wysten
Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:12:16 PM
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Heheheh, this would probably have fun with the huge charcters.

66 Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi General
55 Grand Master Yoda
50 General Aayla Secura
33 Captain Rex
23 Mon Mothma
21 Admiral Yularen
20 Commander Gree
16 Queen Amidala
30 Republic Commando - Scorch x2
98 Star Corps Trooper x7
70 ARF Trooper x7
7 Clone Trooper Gunner
8 Mas Amedda
3 Ugnaught Demolitionist

Preferred Reserves:
(Mon Mothma) 10 ARF Trooper
(Mon Mothma) 9 R2-D2, Astromech Droid

(500pts. 27 activations)

Star Corps do 3 attacks at 30 wo/40 with oppitunist, and a deathblow of 50. ARF do the same, only without squad firepower. All with 19 attack, 20 for the two republic commandos that just serve to be expensive door blowers. XD

Probably a bit light on the activations, but I like how it looks, and just add more clones as it goes up.
adidamps2
Posted: Thursday, November 19, 2009 10:05:15 PM
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engineer wrote:

+18 twin for 20 each from the Lancers
+21 twin (maybe double twin if they don't move) for 40 (with the BD Sargent)

What attacks would be high enough?

It's been a while since I've been on Vassal, but I would be up for a match over Thanksgiving to prove a point. Your squad just does not have enough offense.


how do you get the +18 for strafing? I can see the +14 from GGDAC...but I couldn't find you're additional +4 other than careful shot?


and I have no clue what Vassal is, nor will I be near a computer this Thanksgiving week as I am heading out of town.


BTW you have yet tried to help improve the Bane squad. Just saying. as I have done nothing more than aske don how to make it better while using him.
Wysten
Posted: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:18:59 AM
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Personally, I think you are trying too hard to make a single charcter immensely strong, when at that point level, numbers of none uniques and solid leadership becomes more importent and individal strength becomes much less importent.

My army is an example of a fairly balienced unit, probably too many leaders coming to think about it and I could probably do without Either Obi/Double attack granter/some other commander, but really, it's got some seriously strong cannon fodder that can either kill scrub targets effectively with typically 3 shots at 3 different targets and another with Oppunist and +10 when killed, focus fire to kill leadership figures and have a element that can move across cover easily with huge defence.

For 200 points worth of none unquies, thats 4 shots X 17 = 68 shots at between 20 to 50 damage and that is not even talking about the commanders capable of fighting. Other squads, or armys as I may say, will have around or much more shots then this. A squad with over 250 spent in 4 figures, you are using a lot of figures that are simply too expensive to be useful when 200/300 points worth of infantry can hose them down.

The mandolores are simply not economical in this fastion, together in a Mandolorian squad? Most probably, as they have really strong infantry, but when all they are doing is enhancing a small number of Sith they are simply not worth the cost, easpically as they are incapable of killing more then one figure at a time. With 400 points or more invested in enhancing a small range of warriors, it's just simply going to be a blood bath via focused fire.


I am not saying don't use Bane, but at this point level, unique charcters become a great deal less importent then in lower point games. Personally, Raven in Old Republic would probably be better then Bane, as remember, the greatest scale combat he fought in after the Sith war at his prime was 3 enhanced Jedi at once. The current incarnation of Bane is only really suitable for small scale combat, while splashing him could be effective, he just does not do enough of a job that 82 points worth of reliable infantry could do.


I mean no offense by these words, just giving constuctive ctritsium about the way such point totals work. It's just going to be pretty rough unless both players agree to have an high level unique fight.
adidamps2
Posted: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:52:12 AM
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Thanks and I took no offense...

I think the big down side like you said is the expense of the Sith characters (Bane mainly here) vs. the expense of most other force characters from other factions or the lower end pieces buffed up...

AdmiralAckbar
Posted: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:59:19 AM
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I think you should limit your Sith Beats and use only 1-3 of them and only if they can make up for there cost.

Like Revan will give you MT which will help in a large game like this, Sidious Hologram can give everyone force Renewal or the other sidious has a nasty combo with SAD or SHADs.

Here is a suggestion and it still remains a sith squad.


--The Sith Will Rule the Galaxy!--
88 Darth Revan
57 Darth Sidious, Sith Master
49 Darth Malak, Dark Lord of the Sith
98 Sith Heavy Assault Droid x2
27 Lobot
20 Sith Trooper Captain
19 Sith Trooper Commander
18 Twi'lek Black Sun Vigo
26 Czerka Scientist x2
26 Elite Sith Trooper x2
26 Kel Dor Bounty Hunter x2
8 R7 Astromech Droid
5 Caamasi Noble
15 Sith Guard x3
9 Mouse Droid x3
9 Ugnaught Demolitionist x3

Preferred Reinforcements:
(Lobot) 14 Ugnaught Tech x2
(Lobot) 3 Mouse Droid
(Lobot) 3 Ugnaught Demolitionist

(500pts. 30 activations)

You have double overide and some helpful commander effects, everyone has +4 attack, your Sith Troopers and Guards are double, twining or Jolting, the SHADS are Jolting and taking 4 shots each then you have Sidious pawning for another 4 shots each. There shields help absorb alot of damage and you have two repair guys to help if people manage to get some damage in. The Kel Dors are to position if you happen to face any strafers.
engineer
Posted: Friday, November 20, 2009 2:22:06 AM
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adidamps2 wrote:
how do you get the +18 for strafing? I can see the +14 from GGDAC...but I couldn't find you're additional +4 other than careful shot?

+10 base, +4 from GGDAC, +4 from BDO = +18 with twin

adidamps2 wrote:
and I have no clue what Vassal is, nor will I be near a computer this Thanksgiving week as I am heading out of town.

Vassal is free on-line play for SWM.

adidamps2 wrote:
BTW you have yet tried to help improve the Bane squad. Just saying. as I have done nothing more than asked on how to make it better while using him.

I don't think you can improve this squad. It just has too many high cost figures that don't deal enough damage.
Wysten
Posted: Friday, November 20, 2009 2:36:53 AM
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adidamps2 wrote:
Thanks and I took no offense...

I think the big down side like you said is the expense of the Sith characters (Bane mainly here) vs. the expense of most other force characters from other factions or the lower end pieces buffed up...



Ahhh, cool, cool. ^^ I only commented because I felt it was nessary. Bane is a jugganort in 100 point games, but steadily gets less effective outside that area.

As I said though, nothing wrong with enhancing huge figures at all, just saying that the smaller boys take a life of their own in this format, where the grunts take on their factions strengths beautifully then, as the smoke from the first conflict dies down, the heros surge forwards past the battered troops as they follow behind the leader, eliminating all who come forwards.

Strong charcters still have their place, just in larger games, they are more of the commander or carlivary rather then the driving force of a squad. Which is partly why I don't like Mas that much, he just makes it really hard to get at the leadership figures, though being completely cowardinated armies, it makes sense that only they should have bordere wide commander effects.


But yeah, that sith squad just posted looks a perfect example, strong leadership, but also solid infantry. Personally I would generally have more infantry then Sith Assualt Droids to take advantage of the commander effects, but it's a really good start that mixes the Heroic (or villains. XD) with the rest of the boys. ^^
Mickey
Posted: Friday, November 20, 2009 4:15:27 AM
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Anyone here played a 500 pt battle? We did that once. It took us 6 hours. We decided to stick to smaller battles after that LOL
engineer
Posted: Friday, November 20, 2009 10:38:36 AM
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Mickey wrote:
Anyone here played a 500 pt battle? We did that once. It took us 6 hours. We decided to stick to smaller battles after that LOL

It was several years ago that I played my last 500 point game. It took about 3ish hours to play. Barzillai played Rep with tons of Naboo Soldiers (with Mon Mothma). I took Seps and most of my BD's were killed by the defeated Naboo's one last attack. My 4 units with DR10 took out his force.

The real issue is map selection. There is not any good 500 point maps.
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