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Why do we hate them? Options
Uggie Demo
Posted: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 12:57:58 PM
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Joined: 8/28/2008
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Location: Indianapolis
I'm probably not the only one wondering this but I'm the first to say something.
I know we've been treated like the 3rd child with Wizards, and our game has been cut, but really can we all just step back and look as the glass has half full instead of half empty? I know we've been given crap, ignored, and our forums got the boot, but if WOTC didn't start this we wouldn't have anything. At least thank them for giving us decent rules for the game(and the game for that matter)
and an RPG(which I recomend highly)
Yes I'm sick of wizards, but no I will not keep complaining about "how they could've made this piece" and "This character is crap" and the commonly used "Wizards sucks"
So can we all grow up and start looking at the bright side of this and the great future set out for this game? Or are we gonna keep the community down and keep complaining about things that probably will never happen?
thodafett
Posted: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 1:20:38 PM
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It really is irrelevant at this point, Wizard's last set comes in a months time, and they are out of the picture. Attitudes will improve, and the bickering will focus on the V set creators instead. You forget that most die hard gamers and Star Wars fans are usually on the geeky side, and well complain is what we do best!
Demosthenes
Posted: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 1:22:40 PM
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I look forward to the future of SWM, but Wizards still sucks. =P
Uggie Demo
Posted: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 1:23:35 PM
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thodafett wrote:
It really is irrelevant at this point, Wizards last set comes in a months time, and they are out of the picture. Attitudes will improve, and the bickering will focus on the V set creators instead. You forget that most die hard gamers and Star Wars fans are usually on the geeky side, and well complain is what we do best!

Lol, I guess you're right, but I hope people don't start bickering at the V-set creators, because what there doing is alot better then what wizards as done.
qvos
Posted: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 1:29:04 PM
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Joined: 2/26/2009
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We've got to have someone to rail against. I'm not happy unless I have something to complain about..BigGrin
thodafett
Posted: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 1:47:16 PM
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Location: Nampa, ID
Yeah, In all honesty I think the V set guys will handle the job with class and show Wotc what passion for a genera or in this case game, can be done to be succesful, and keep the fans/customers happy. Corporate red tape, and the unavoidable bottom line, really hurt these type of things. Who knows better than the customer what they want? Corporations like to try, but that is also why so many fail time and time again.
engineer
Posted: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:36:10 AM
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Joined: 4/19/2008
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Location: Kalamazoo, MI
thodafett wrote:
Attitudes will improve, and the bickering will focus on the V set creators instead.

What? Really? I just want to help design good stats.
AdmiralMotti89
Posted: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 12:52:52 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 7/29/2009
Posts: 496
Location: Nebraska
engineer wrote:
thodafett wrote:
Attitudes will improve, and the bickering will focus on the V set creators instead.

What? Really? I just want to help design good stats.


The funny thing is that even though the V-set designers will do a better job than Wizards, we'll get a bunch of uninformed whiners saying "This sucks I quit! Wizards did it so much better," when they didn't get all 150 characters they wanted in a 60 piece set.

@The OP:

I think the fact that wizards does suck is the bright side. Sure, it's a great game, but there's so many things that could have been much better with just a micron more effort. It's the bright side because really, in terms of handling a game, the p***(urine)-poor job wizards did (reletive to how simply it could have been much better) will be easily bested by some of the best minds in the game, who are over at gamers btw (in addition to some of them being around here.)

It's the bright side because much of that (rightly complained against) Wizards BS we will no longer have to deal with. If people get disappointed with V-sets for some reason, it'd be important for them to look back at how poorly wizards did and how little they cared, and our perpetuation of hatin' on Wizards will allow them to see that. Maybe what might be good instead is a giant list of grievances stickied at the top of the forum so people can see why the game will be in much better hands than Wizards'

The fact that it is a great game does not make up for the almost intentional lack of realization of its potential. It's like having an undercooked pizza that's still pretty good even though the chef took it out of the oven, knowing it was still too early, because he didn't want to deal with it anymore.
thodafett
Posted: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 3:01:55 AM
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engineer wrote:
thodafett wrote:
Attitudes will improve, and the bickering will focus on the V set creators instead.

What? Really? I just want to help design good stats.


I personally don't doubt your skills or the great things you will accomplish, but there always seems to be somebody who thinks they can do it better, or know a better way to get the same results. That being said they should just take a step back and be thankful for the long hours of volunteer work that you guys will be putting in, to make sure their game is the best possible and continues forward. Plus they can change whatever they want in their games at home, that seems to elude most peoples thinking for whatever reason. BUT, every now and then I am sure some "newb" will show up thinking he will be taking over the operation and start barking out orders.
I do think things will be better with the game in the hands of the players and not Wizards. There will be less things to cause flare ups, and when there are problems, they can be fixed a lot easier and faster.
TheChosenOne
Posted: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:02:05 AM
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Joined: 3/3/2010
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I personally agree with Uggie Demo. I think it would be the right thing to do; to not begrudge the Wizards. They have problems like everyone else in the world.

We should be thankful for their support and time put into this game.

My personal opinion.
seibermaki
Posted: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 6:35:07 AM
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Joined: 6/13/2009
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Wizards lost my respect with 4th Edition D&D. So their lackluster support of SWM hasn't affected my impression of them much.

I think the group @ swmgamers will do their best with the V-set stuff and I can't wait to see what they come up with. Hopefully a light side Revan (assuming we don't get one in MotF) that is playable, although I have yet to pull the original. :)
Uggie Demo
Posted: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:06:16 AM
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@ Admerialmotii:
I agree with you, Wizards dropping the game might be a good thing, but we dont need to keep sulking on the fact that they stopped the game.

I still can't wait for the first V-set!!!!
Sithborg
Posted: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 10:33:13 AM
Rank: Moderator
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Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
engineer wrote:
thodafett wrote:
Attitudes will improve, and the bickering will focus on the V set creators instead.

What? Really? I just want to help design good stats.


Yes, really. As long as we don't develop a Team Ohio like group (a certain personality doesn't count, as he does not have skill), I think the calls for your head will be kept to a minimum.
carnorjax1
Posted: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 10:44:52 AM
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AdmiralMotti89 wrote:
engineer wrote:
thodafett wrote:
Attitudes will improve, and the bickering will focus on the V set creators instead.

What? Really? I just want to help design good stats.


The funny thing is that even though the V-set designers will do a better job than Wizards, we'll get a bunch of uninformed whiners saying "This sucks I quit! Wizards did it so much better," when they didn't get all 150 characters they wanted in a 60 piece set.

@The OP:

I think the fact that wizards does suck is the bright side. Sure, it's a great game, but there's so many things that could have been much better with just a micron more effort. It's the bright side because really, in terms of handling a game, the p***(urine)-poor job wizards did (reletive to how simply it could have been much better) will be easily bested by some of the best minds in the game, who are over at gamers btw (in addition to some of them being around here.)

It's the bright side because much of that (rightly complained against) Wizards BS we will no longer have to deal with. If people get disappointed with V-sets for some reason, it'd be important for them to look back at how poorly wizards did and how little they cared, and our perpetuation of hatin' on Wizards will allow them to see that. Maybe what might be good instead is a giant list of grievances stickied at the top of the forum so people can see why the game will be in much better hands than Wizards'

The fact that it is a great game does not make up for the almost intentional lack of realization of its potential. It's like having an undercooked pizza that's still pretty good even though the chef took it out of the oven, knowing it was still too early, because he didn't want to deal with it anymore.


"uniformed whiners?" Really? Wow, so I guess now if we like what WOTC did better, we get labeled as uniformed whiners. No, you're right, if we don't like V-sets, we suck. ThumbDown Maybe I liked what Wizards did with minis, and while I may not be happy with them pulling out, I'm sure they had a tough job. It's hard playtesting figs, and with tons of people demanding they make different figs, it's hard to make something to please everyone.
AdmiralMotti89
Posted: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 10:46:24 AM
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Joined: 7/29/2009
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Location: Nebraska
Uggie Demo wrote:
@ Admerialmotii:
I agree with you, Wizards dropping the game might be a good thing, but we dont need to keep sulking on the fact that they stopped the game.


Ohhhhh I get it. I thought you were against people ripping on wizards in general. I'm all for ripping on Wizards. However, I think that the game will be in better hands. There are a few regrets (AAT, Jerec (MotF?)), but we will get more of the characters we want that are playable and not broken.
Sithborg
Posted: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 10:49:24 AM
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Joined: 8/24/2008
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Yeah, 2 people playtesting sets is a real strain on WOTC...
carnorjax1
Posted: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 10:53:30 AM
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Sithborg wrote:
Yeah, 2 people playtesting sets is a real strain on WOTC...


I mean it's hard to think out stats, becuase they don't have a list of all the possible combos that the fig can be deadly with. They might think that a fig will have no big effect on the game, but then a player makes a nasty team with the fig, and everyone starts to blame WOTC saying that the piece is broken, and ragging on them. Then they have to deal with fans who want figs to have outrageous stats, everything they have in the movies.
AdmiralMotti89
Posted: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 10:56:54 AM
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Joined: 7/29/2009
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Location: Nebraska
carnorjax1 wrote:
AdmiralMotti89 wrote:

The funny thing is that even though the V-set designers will do a better job than Wizards, we'll get a bunch of uninformed whiners saying "This sucks I quit! Wizards did it so much better," when they didn't get all 150 characters they wanted in a 60 piece set.


"uniformed whiners?" Really? Wow, so I guess now if we like what WOTC did better, we get labeled as uniformed whiners. No, you're right, if we don't like V-sets, we suck. ThumbDown Maybe I liked what Wizards did with minis, and while I may not be happy with them pulling out, I'm sure they had a tough job. It's hard playtesting figs, and with tons of people demanding they make different figs, it's hard to make something to please everyone.


If you would have actually read my post, instead of going out of your way trying to get offended (boredom?), you would have noticed that I was speaking of those who have unreasonable expectations: "when they didn't get all 150 characters they wanted in a 60 piece set." Did you ignore that part? I know I post long posts, but before accusing me of something I think you could at least be decent and read more than just the first few lines.

Anyways, it's cool that you can look past all of the terrible proofreading and overall lack of give-a-hoot that wizards had. Maybe you're a glass half full kinda person. That's cool. But for me, I see all the places where with just a tiny bit more effort we could have a a much better product.

Now at Gamers, we have a group not bound by contract to put a Vader or whatever in every set, a group that knows more about balance and is more creative than the wizards designers ever were, a group that is actually motivated to do a good job, and a group that actually gives a darn what the players want. How could it NOT be better than the lazy and unconcerned WotC?
trappedslider
Posted: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:06:35 AM
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Joined: 12/4/2008
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just out of curiousity did WotC do anything right when it came to the game?
AdmiralMotti89
Posted: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:09:46 AM
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Joined: 7/29/2009
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Location: Nebraska
trappedslider wrote:
just out of curiousity did WotC do anything right when it came to the game?


Look at my pizza example above, that's how I would answer that question. In some ways I feel that to do something right you have to do the best you can with what you have. Wizards sure as shootin' didn;t even come close. But, the game still is pretty fun.
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