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So can Mara Jade Jedi use Lightsaber Assault against non adjacent enemies? It looks like it from her card, but seems silly that she would because she has the Lightsaber ability only against adjacent enemies. I am fairly sure it would work against non adjacents but it just seemed a bit anomolous re: common sense :)
Obviously I want the ability to work against non adjacents because she is totally bad A and I love her!
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Per the Glossary the enemy must be adjacent
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But it's still considered a non-melee attack. It's devastating because it can't be blocked, parried, or evaded. Lightsaber Deflect or SSM are the main counters.
(And that's a big flaw in the rules, imo.)
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Lobotnik wrote:So can Mara Jade Jedi use Lightsaber Assault against non adjacent enemies? It looks like it from her card,
never trust the card alone, look to the rules for further explanation 
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Quote:(And that's a big flaw in the rules, imo.) agreed, it's good enough for poison blade, whats the difference.
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Poisoned Blade specifically states that it makes the attack count as melee, Lightsaber Assault does not.
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EmporerDragon wrote:Poisoned Blade specifically states that it makes the attack count as melee, Lightsaber Assault does not. kfc (and me) are just talking about what the rules should have been.
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Call it learning as he went. Lightsaber +10 was made long before Poisoned Blade. It would be a bad change right now, imo.
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Sithborg wrote:Call it learning as he went. Lightsaber +10 was made long before Poisoned Blade. It would be a bad change right now, imo. personally I don't think so, so many times when we play it comes up and we all think it should be fixed, and we can't think of anything that would be ruined by changing it... imo.
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kfc's waiting for you wrote:Sithborg wrote:Call it learning as he went. Lightsaber +10 was made long before Poisoned Blade. It would be a bad change right now, imo. personally I don't think so, so many times when we play it comes up and we all think it should be fixed, and we can't think of anything that would be ruined by changing it... imo. If there's ever a rules "reset" (SWM 2.0), I'd agree with a change. But I don't think doing an errata to something that old is a good idea. Although it should be rule #2 in any decent set of house rules - right after granting all force users with a lightsaber an additional unwritten force power to destroy an adjacent door for 1 force point (replaces turn).
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People who advocate this change are pretty much in favor of making Mara even more powerful. She become the most versatile mini in thr game at that point. Between that, and honoring what the ability was designed to be, there is no reason to change it.
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Sithborg wrote:People who advocate this change are pretty much in favor of making Mara even more powerful. She become the most versatile mini in thr game at that point. Between that, and honoring what the ability was designed to be, there is no reason to change it. Agreed, plus since A&E theres been alot more NR pieces that are pretty good to where Mara isnt in every NR squad now.. alot of low costing Jedi been made who took the place of her. Dont get me wrong shes still used but IMO just not as much. Kyp durron is a good example, he does basically the same LSA/Twin deal without the LS+10 ..
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Darth Percocet wrote:Sithborg wrote:People who advocate this change are pretty much in favor of making Mara even more powerful. She become the most versatile mini in thr game at that point. Between that, and honoring what the ability was designed to be, there is no reason to change it. Agreed, plus since A&E theres been alot more NR pieces that are pretty good to where Mara isnt in every NR squad now.. alot of low costing Jedi been made who took the place of her. Dont get me wrong shes still used but IMO just not as much. Kyp durron is a good example, he does basically the same LSA/Twin deal without the LS+10 .. I disagree, wouldn't it make Mara less powerful... I can't count the amount of times i've run Mara up and smacked someone with block or parry and they can't do anything about it, it seems really silly to me. Lightsaber(+10 damage against adjacent enemies, counts as a melee attack) how could that possibly ruin anything?
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kfc's waiting for you wrote:
I disagree, wouldn't it make Mara less powerful...
No, she'd gain the ability to bypass both types of defense: Hang back and shoot characters with block and parry, run up and smack characters with deflect and SSM. In any case, I'm in the "firmly against" category when it comes to changing abilities simply for flavor value. This game is an abstract, real-world or star wars-universe logic should not be applied to it.
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EmporerDragon wrote:
No, she'd gain the ability to bypass both types of defense: Hang back and shoot characters with block and parry, run up and smack characters with deflect and SSM.
How is that different from the Genohardren Assassin's Poison Blade? Not only did they rule that when adjacent the GA goes from ranged to melee, but the base damage effectively becomes 20. He's a perfect example of how the Lightsaber ability can easily be changed. If you cannot accept Lightsaber acting similar to Poison Blade, then you're just being stubborn. Don't give the excuse of "well, everyone is use to the ruling as it is", cause look at Soresu Style Mastery and Ion Gun!! As to making Mara more powerful, switching her attacks to becomming melee would make you think twice before going after someone with Riposte or Djem So. The only problem with changing the rule would be to remember how it works when the right situation came about. But over time, people would get use to playing by the rule changes (which, BTW, I play with a whole new set of rules for Warhammer Fantasy every 4-5 years and the players learn the changes with good ease). Sincerely, Jester007
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It's different because with Mara you're taking one of the very best figures in the game, perhaps the single best in the faction, and making it even better, where with the GenoHaradan it's just decent with this option already available.
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EmporerDragon wrote:
No, she'd gain the ability to bypass both types of defense: Hang back and shoot characters with block and parry, run up and smack characters with deflect and SSM.
Mara with Twin and Cunning can only do 40 damage per round as a non-adjacent shooter. Not bad, but it's not why she's feared. It's because she can run up and do 120 damage on the move with a Lightsaber Assault that is non-melee. Changing the Lightsaber attack to melee would let her bypass LS Deflect/SSM instead of LS Block/Parry. It would make her a little weaker because there are a few more figures with Block/Parry (60) than there are with Deflect/SSM (50), and also because it makes her vulnerable to Djem So/Riposte. Star Wars Miniatures is not a simulation, but it is closer to a simulation than it is to an abstract game. It is a very heavily themed game. These are abstract games: Notable Abstract Strategy Games
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If 40 dam is good enough for Fett, it is perfectly fine for a shooter 2/3 the cost.
This isn't a situation like Ysalimari or Melee Reach, where it doesn't work like the designer intended. She is still great now, and there is now solid rules or balancing issues enough to change it, even if the result was minor, which it isn't.
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But if it were changed then would Aurra Sing (CS) be melee or non-melle when using LS Sweep? what about just adjacent?
What about Cade Skywlaker? HE has a LS would/could he be melee when adjacent?
Too many problems would be caused just to change one fig/ability.
In SWM you should be one or the other not have the ability to use both. The genoharden was a mistake figure to make (IMO) because all he has added is confusion.
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urbanjedi wrote:
In SWM you should be one or the other not have the ability to use both. The genoharden was a mistake figure to make (IMO) because all he has added is confusion.
I have to admit I haven't kept track, but it seems like Mara causes a lot more rules questions than the Geno.
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