After watching that awesome new TOR trailer, I thought I'd give a couple of the good guys a custom stat treatment... I'm assuming the Female jedi will eventually be named.

Female Jedi Knight 48 Points VR
Old Republic
HP: 110
Def: 21
Atk: 13
Dam: 20

Special Abilities
Unique; Melee Attack; Twin Attack; Intuition; Crowd Fighting;

Force Powers
Force 1. Force Renewal 1
Absorb Energy
Force Leap
Force Push 4
Lightsaber Block
Master of the Force 2

Commander Effect
Allies whose name contains Havoc within 6 squares gain Bravado.

Her initiative enabled her to take out multiple Sith combatants before challenging Darth Malgus himself, further displaying her courage in her willingness to duel a Sith Lord.


Havoc Squad Commander 26 Points UC
Old Republic
HP: 50
Def: 18
Atk: 10
Dam: 30

Special Abilities
Grenades 20; Charging Fire; Sith Hunter;
Guerrilla Warfare (Allies within 6 squares do not provoke attacks of opportunity)

Commander Effect
Soldier, trooper and commando followers within 6 squares gain Sith Hunter.

"We must fight—to victory, or death—for the Republic!"
―The trooper during the Battle of Alderaan

I guess there is so much more one could do, but I gave it a shot.

Satele Shan and the girl in the trailer look very different. For starters, Satele uses a green, single-edged lightsaber. The girl in the trailer uses a blue double-edged lightsaber. Furthermore, Satele has brown hair and brown eyes while the girl in the trailer has black hair and icy blue eyes. Furthermore, Wookiepedia has separate articles for them. So... yeah.

People's initial thoughts are that it is Satele Shan, however, that battle apparently takes place several years before the sacking of Coruscant, and at that time Satale is a young padawan.

The first one looks pretty cool. She contains all the ability that she has used, just I am not sure whether master of the force fits. That being said, her damage output is effectively limited to 40, her commander effect is limited and no real ranged defence, so I would say she's probably fine. Perhaps overcosted, I can't really say for sure as she does a lot, but does not seem that great at anything either.

Guerrilla Warfare does nothing for the second charcter as attacks of op can only occure while adjcent which results them being without cover anyways, but aside from that he is pretty well laid out. All I can suggest is that he has 50 hp or a little higher. If we are modling it after the guy from the trailer, he seems pretty tough anyways, at least tough enough to take a granade go off in his face, to tackle Jedi, take a force lightning from a Sith lord. Pretty sure that he is the cream of his crop.

yeah guerrilla warfare is uselesss

I beg to differ about undercosted and allow me to explain why.

The sheer size of your basic HP+Def+Attk+Dmg (+2FP) would make your character around 30 pts +/- 3 by themselves. While Unique+Melee is negative points, the Twin, Intuition, Crowdfighting And a CE kick the cost up to 40 pts +/- 3 ... and we haven't even thrown in the Force Powers yet; You've got SIX force powers; Renewal, MOTF anf Push 4 are pricey ... at an average cost of 2.5 - 3 pts per power thats 15-18 points right there ... plus when you the amout of FP's you add have plateau's; +4 FP are cheaper than +6 ... two extra FP's almost double the cost. That 15 -18 pt cost jumps to something like 26 -32 pts.

I'd say the cost would be closer to 65 - 70 pts.


That said .... I do like the piece. But if you want to keep it around 45-50, you may need to lose 2 FP's.

I always like to ask; what program/formula do you use to cost mini's?

I get what you are saying, but when you compare her to a piece like Shado Vao, Shaak Ti, JM or Master Lucien Draay and I think she falls in that group. Especially when you look at her in comparison to Shaak Ti, JM (and her faction(s) support) I think her cost is fair.

I've become convinced that the cost Force Renewal has decreased over the last few years. We have 20 point pieces with Renewal these days.

Some people will argue the merits of Twin Attack vs Double Attack. I took the mobility into account which is why she has no LS Assault, or another damage modifier. A Melee fig at 48-ish points with a 40 damage output needs a bit of surviveability. Consider Mara Jade, Jedi- 3 points less, but with great faction support and the ability to do 120 from 6 away.

As to how I cost: This... could take a while. There is a LOT that goes into it. At least for me. The overriding philosophy for the whole thing, for me is this: the game of SWM has evolved to one of "Maximum reliable damage output at most efficient cost." Any of the best players in the world will tell you that is how they build their squads.

Now, from there, lets see if I can break this into any major categories:

#1 The Fig In A Vaccuum Cost VS Effectiveness.

I am convinced that for any one character, there is a Cost vs Effectiveness curve. It's kind of like an inverse logarythmic curve (Cost being the X-axis; Effectiveness being the Y-axis) Ultimately, you want to be at the point of the curve just before the steep drop off. When you get to a certain point, increasing the cost even a couple points can cause an effectiveness drop off of dramatic proportions. Conversely, dropping the cost too much can create an auto-include. (ie, MJJ, Rieekian, Thrawn etc) This is BEFORE faction support is considered, which is SO important as well.

For example, look at a fig like Darth Talon: a 56 point fig with a max damage output of 40 and limited stats and survivability. In a vaccuum, she's not an effective piece for her cost and her base stats and some abilities are similar to the fig I created. Now, in her faction, she's STILL not effective for her cost, and is likely less effective because her support is so expensive. So the question is: if my fig is competitive, is it powercreep, or was Talon never competitive to begin with? If I was going to re-cost Darth Talon as is, I'd put her somewhere around 42 points. I like my figs to be playable to create variety in squadbuilding.

Often, I tend to start with a point cost or power level I'm aiming for and then adjust from there. I often adjust a cost 4,5 or 6 times before I like it. Basic stats are a starting point, but you can't consider any one part as increasing or decreasing cost without seeing how it interacts with others. If I gave her a 9 attack for example, I'd probably have costed her around 39 or so. Attack values on melee characters are an important factor in their cost structure.

Remember Komari Vosa? 80 HP +9 Atk, but the big buzz originally was her Double + Twin and NO MELEE ATTACK. Then the errata we all expected happend and she was never spoken of again.

More examples of this: GMLS- at 95 he's probably a deal, but at 115, it's hard to make him compete.

#2. Faction Support

This one is huge. Seems Rob never really took it into consideration for factions other than the Rebels, Republic, Imps, and NR. I try to do it with all my creations.

I'll try to finish this tomorrow as I'm heading home from work now.

Ahh, I did not catch onto Absorb energy, I thought it was limited to melee attacks for some reason, so thats pretty cool.

That being said, the only way I will be really convinced is to see her in action. Heh

No basic Havok Republic troops though?

Actually, its Not Satele; if you went to Wook, you didn't look this particular article up ...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Unidentified_Jedi_(Battle_of_Alderaan)

I believe This is the Jedi that Gemini based his character on. On a side note, the Jedi of that Era apparently were Dang good fighters and strong in the Force compared to the better known Jedi of the Prequel Era. We call them Unleashed; back then they apparently All were Unleashed.

It's no secret that Rob never designed all pieces to be effective, versatile and efficient. He has said that there were purposeful duds. As custom stat creators, we- or at least I don't see the point in creating true duds. I try to be fair, I try not to make things that are TOO powerful (I still do for kicks, of course) but I also don't want to create something that is useless. I actually like to try and play the stuff I make, and sometimes I find them too strong, sometimes too weak.



This is true, but also, you can't NOT look at faction needs (or haves) often times when creating a fig. The OR and to an extent the Sith are PERFECT examples of this. There is so little faction synergy it's almost laughable and makes faction heavy, or faction pure OR or Sith very difficult to field. However, I don't think that my Female Jedi Knight is an example of a fig created specifically to fill a "faction need'.



No worries. To he honest, it is very hard to say that there is any real definite 'formula'. It simply can't exist. Look at the original stormtrooper, Rob has said that they got a boost because the powers that be wanted them to be played. In doing that, right at the start, he threw off any possible formula that could be board-wide consistent. To say that Melee Attack is an automatic -6 or -8 points is something that might be viable over a certain number of figs, but not for others. I look at a commander as being a fig that gets a discount over a follower simply because they are limited in what CE's they can benefit from- it is after that that I try and account for how effective the CE is to the fig and faction and add accordingly.

It's hard to look at a fig and say "this plus this, minus this equals this." and come up with a formula. You can get a ballpark, but then you have to look at SA synergy, FP (if any) synergy, CE effectiveness in faction, with Fringe, etc. What I often end up doing is getting a ballpark figure, and then I start looking at other figs in that price range that go from the most effective fig in that range to the most ineffective fig in that range. Sometimes the number I come up with seems too high, so I'll tone the fig back a bit. Drop an SA, some HP, Def or Atk, and then take another look.

For example, with my Female Jedi Knight, I did look at Talon, but also at MJJ, Shaak Ti, JM, Shado Vao, Darth Tyrannus, LotDS, even Qui-Gon JM and went from there. She originally had Double Attack as well as Twin, but I felt that she was getting into the late 50's as far as point cost was going to go and I didn't want her there. You can also look at her in comparison to the 43 pt Ventress from the map pack who has similar stats, but Double + Twin + Sith Rage + Rolling Cleave for crazy damage output as well as Stealth (access to Evade), Loner (for the +4 Atk) and access a cheap Force battery. Ventress from GAW costs 57 and has Double + Twin + Sith Rage + Master Speed + Evade + a powerful CE...

So, while FP4 is a very powerful ability, unlike VAR and Luke, HPU she doesn't have a real force battery to make her abusive. She'll have trouble against the duelists often needing 9's, 10's or 11's to hit, but she'll be pesky. She won't die in one turn to MJJ, if she's careful about her Force point allocation- which is fair I think as she costs more.

All this being said, I think I'm gonna drop her Atk to 13 and start her with one force point instead of 2 and keep the cost at 48.