|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 2/20/2009
Posts: 522
|
Ok, I just had this senario pop into my head:
R2-D2 Astromech Droid uses Tow Cable and nominates that he is towing Captain Rex. During the course of R2's move, he flies in a square adjacent to a Jedi Seer. The Seer elects to take the AOO and defeats R2. What then happens to Rex?
The wording of Tow Cable says that the character being towed MUST end their move adjacent to the character w/ Tow Cable. But since R2 is no longer on the board, he cannot complete the mandatory requirement. I came up with several different solutions, but couldn't deduce which one was correct and I need some help figuring it out. Cheers!
Sincerely,
Jester007
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 3/27/2008
Posts: 871
Location: Cincinnati, OH
|
The characters move simultaneously so you won't have to worry about figuring a space since you need to know the space anyway. There is also the possibility that the Seer could take an AoO on Rex during the Tow session (reason it's important to show your path).
That last part is also described in the FAQ:
Q: If R2-D2 Astromech Droid tows a character into an adjacent square can I make attacks of opportunity on both of them?
A: No. You are still limited to one attack of opportunity per turn. You could choose either character in this case, but not both.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 2/20/2009
Posts: 522
|
jedispyder wrote:The characters move simultaneously so you won't have to worry about figuring a space since you need to know the space anyway. But then that would fall under Simultaneous Effects right? Take that with the wording of Tow Cable, and then it really means that the owning player has to move R2 first. I was under the assumption that you had to resolve R2's move first so that way you can have a space further away to land the allied character. Sincerely, Jester007
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/4/2008
Posts: 1,441
|
See Mines in the FAQ/Glossary for the correct resolution. This works the same way. Essentially, you resolve all of R2s move, then the towed character. Your opponent can take the AoO on either figure, but not both.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator, Rules Guy
Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
|
jedispyder wrote:The characters move simultaneously so you won't have to worry about figuring a space since you need to know the space anyway. There is also the possibility that the Seer could take an AoO on Rex during the Tow session (reason it's important to show your path).
This is incorrect. You only need to declare an ending space with Strafe Attack. You move R2, and then you move the Towed character. If R2 is defeated, you may move the Towed character to any space within 12. I doubt it is in the FAQ, but I know it is covered somewhere on the WOTC forums.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 3/27/2008
Posts: 871
Location: Cincinnati, OH
|
I never said they had to have an end space declared like Strafe, I know they don't. I was saying the towed character moves simultaneously with the character with Tow Cable (which is stated in the definition). Based on the fact they're moving simultaneous, it doesn't make sense to me that the towed character would just be put anywhere within 12 spaces because it also says in the definition that they must end adjacent to where the character with Tow Cable would be (thus, where the character died). I guess I just understood it wrong. I guess just chop it up with WotC and their ambiguous statements.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 1/5/2009
Posts: 2,240
Location: Akron Ohio, just south of dantooine.
|
Wouldn't Rex be placed adjacent to R2's smoking remains?
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
|
Sithborg wrote:jedispyder wrote:The characters move simultaneously so you won't have to worry about figuring a space since you need to know the space anyway. There is also the possibility that the Seer could take an AoO on Rex during the Tow session (reason it's important to show your path).
This is incorrect. You only need to declare an ending space with Strafe Attack. You move R2, and then you move the Towed character. If R2 is defeated, you may move the Towed character to any space within 12. I doubt it is in the FAQ, but I know it is covered somewhere on the WOTC forums. That's certainly not obvious.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator, Rules Guy
Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
|
juice man wrote:Wouldn't Rex be placed adjacent to R2's smoking remains? Nope. When R2 is defeated, he is no longer on the board. Therefore, it is impossible to end the Towed character's move adjacent to him, since R2 is no longer on the board. So, they can still move the 12 with flight.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 1/5/2009
Posts: 2,240
Location: Akron Ohio, just south of dantooine.
|
Sithborg wrote:jedispyder wrote:The characters move simultaneously so you won't have to worry about figuring a space since you need to know the space anyway. There is also the possibility that the Seer could take an AoO on Rex during the Tow session (reason it's important to show your path).
This is incorrect. You only need to declare an ending space with Strafe Attack. You move R2, and then you move the Towed character. If R2 is defeated, you may move the Towed character to any space within 12. I doubt it is in the FAQ, but I know it is covered somewhere on the WOTC forums. Are you sure? Before Jedi Reflexes you couldn't get an AoO on somebody with Flight.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator, Rules Guy
Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
|
This first came up when Mines was introduced in Clone Wars.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
|
Sithborg wrote:juice man wrote:Wouldn't Rex be placed adjacent to R2's smoking remains? Nope. When R2 is defeated, he is no longer on the board. Therefore, it is impossible to end the Towed character's move adjacent to him, since R2 is no longer on the board. So, they can still move the 12 with flight. Not that I doubt you since you're almost always right... I originally thought "simultaneous" meant they were moving at the same time. One square of R2's movement = one square of the towed character's movement. That would imply a dead R2 = drop the other character. But according to the card the movement happens "simultaneously". Is this a simultaneous effect where the acting player could choose to move either one first (based on choosing the order of simultaneous effects)? That would make sense with the rest of the game's rules, too. With the restriction of ending the other character's move next to R2, there's little difference, but it would introduce one subtle possibility - move the character to the other side of R2 first, then move R2 somewhere else without him. But I can't see the rule about "move R2 first" then "move the other character" anywhere other than what you've said. I don't get that sense from the card, the glossary, or the FAQ. What am I missing?
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 3/27/2008
Posts: 871
Location: Cincinnati, OH
|
Found it: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/19460806/Tow_Cable.?post_id=331106166#331106166 "If R2 is killed in the process of using tow cable, the towed mini may move 12 squares, but it doesn't benefit from the flight it would have gained via tow cable." That just doesn't make any sense at all. Wow. Then again that's what I get for trying to put real world logic into the minis game...
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 2/20/2009
Posts: 522
|
FlyingArrow wrote:But according to the card the movement happens "simultaneously". Is this a simultaneous effect where the acting player could choose to move either one first (based on choosing the order of simultaneous effects)? That would make sense with the rest of the game's rules, too. With the restriction of ending the other character's move next to R2, there's little difference, but it would introduce one subtle possibility - move the character to the other side of R2 first, then move R2 somewhere else without him.
But I can't see the rule about "move R2 first" then "move the other character" anywhere other than what you've said. I don't get that sense from the card, the glossary, or the FAQ. What am I missing? There's nothing that says you have to move R2 first. It's just that in most cases, you're going to want to move R2 first so that the accompanying character can benefit from the free move as much as possible. Depending on the situation you could move the ally first (as long as he ended the free move next to R2) and then fly R2 away. I also just want to thank SB for having a clue on the ruling and to jedispyder for tracking the thread down. Sincerely, Jester007
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 4/4/2008
Posts: 1,441
|
You do have to move R2 first, there is a ruling on that somewhere back in the day. The reason is the ending the move adjacent to R2.
Essentially speaking, tow cable is just a granted move, that has some restrictions. It's an abstraction of R2 towing something, but in the end, it's simply a granted out of turn move of 12 with flight that must end adjacent to r2.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 8,428
|
I believe you, but would it be possible to get a ruling like that into the FAQ? I wouldn't have come to that conclusion on my own, and I don't think the rules support it without an special ruling. (I think Jester's interpretation, while a bit strange, matches best with other rulings on simultaneous effects.) We had to hunt down a long-dead Wizards thread for it this time... next time someone asks we'll be hunting down this thread. :-)
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 1/2/2009
Posts: 230
Location: near Madison, WI
|
I also recall a discussion on the WOTC forums that R2 and the towed character do NOT have to be adjacent during the whole tow process and can actually take different paths until they end their movements adjacent.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator, Rules Guy
Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
|
It takes a very close reading of the rules to get that R2 must move first. The Towed character must end up adjacent to where R2 ends his move. So by default, the Towed character cannot move until R2 has an ending space. It comes down to that nothing truly resolves simultaneously in this game, and that there can be an order to the way they resolve.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 1/30/2009
Posts: 6,457
Location: Southern Illinois
|
FlyingArrow wrote:I believe you, but would it be possible to get a ruling like that into the FAQ? I wouldn't have come to that conclusion on my own, and I don't think the rules support it without an special ruling. (I think Jester's interpretation, while a bit strange, matches best with other rulings on simultaneous effects.) We had to hunt down a long-dead Wizards thread for it this time... next time someone asks we'll be hunting down this thread. :-) I second this. The ruling should be added to the FAQ. 
|
|
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member
Joined: 2/26/2009
Posts: 1,382
Location: Detroit, Mi
|
This has been an excellent question. I think there might be lot of situations that came up as new v-sets are released. I know it must be hard while playtesting to cover all the possible scenarios that came up . Excellent question and answers!
|
|
|
Guest |