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CerousMutor wrote:TimmerB123 wrote:Deathwielded wrote:TimmerB123 wrote:CerousMutor wrote:
I always thought we needed a . . . mini Similar to Exar in that he sacrifices his squad. I know You have the nom bombs but a twist on it could be nice.
So you mean that a Vong character would actually sacrifice his allies to gain benefits for his squad? Maybe something like the Muun Tactics Broker, but called Sacrifice? Or perhaps "(insert YV God here) sacrifice". That would be sweet. Don't know if it's exactly right for Yu'shaa. He was a fake profit, only concerned with himself. I think this sacrifice ability might be perfect for some kind of high priest. Hmmmm Yeah especially since the Yuuzhan Vong now have so many low costing pieces, you wouldn't have much of a problem finding good sacrifices. I would need to be worth it. Maybe something like: Yun-Yammka Sacrifice usable only during this characters turn, you may choose 1 other character in your squad. Remove that character from play; that character is defeated. All Yuuzhan Vong allies get +10 damage for the rest of the round. Except you couldn't sacrifice shamed ones, that would insult the gods. Also don't know if Vong need another damage boost - I think attack boost would be better. Also - it would work better if they didn't have to activate to use it. So more like the MTB, only optional. Yun-Yammka Sacrifice After initiative is determined, you may choose 1 other Yuuzhan Vong ally without the Shamed One ability. Remove that character from play; that character is defeated. All Yuuzhan Vong allies get +4 attack for the rest of the round. I really do like this. What would it be for the other gods? What would Yun-Harla's be (The trickster goddess)? I'd have it more like this... Yun-Yammka Sacrifice After initiative is determined, you may choose 1 non- Yuuzhan Vong ally. Remove that character from play; that character is defeated. All Yuuzhan Vong allies get +4 attack for the rest of the round In danger of derailing the thread here but have a look at some of my Vong customs on the Custom Character board. Have a look at Eminence Harrar when you get your cards. ;)
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That Conscriptor seems fairly intense - you could really swing a game if you pull a couple of conscriptions off - I was totally expecting something that made Fringe pieces into Mandos, not something that made enemies into Mandos.
Streen has a few possibilities too. Dathmori Witch swarm is probably an option, but he probably has some other possibilities too.
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TheHutts wrote:That Conscriptor seems fairly intense - you could really swing a game if you pull a couple of conscriptions off - I was totally expecting something that made Fringe pieces into Mandos, not something that made enemies into Mandos.
Streen has a few possibilities too. Dathmori Witch swarm is probably an option, but he probably has some other possibilities too. Whoa yeah it is...wow...he is going to have a big target on his head, but man a few big Conscriptions... I like Streen, he has some fun potential. And I love the idea of a whole coven of Witches just Force Pushing 2 all day long. Plus if they circle around him they can get stealth with some Force Fog.
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buzz droid holy crap, talk about your silver bullets wow... i love it!
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In a competitive game, conscription could actually be a big negative. You don't get the points for it since it wasn't defeated. Now it's on your squad with only 20hp. The opponent does get the points just for knocking off 20hp. It's like a Betrayal at exactly the wrong moment... one that helps your opponent more than it helps you. Especially if it's a 50hp beatstick that you never even get to activate. That's a 100-point swing in favor of your opponent. On the other hand, in a casual environment where you're playing to the death, or if you're confident your squad will always play to completion it could be fun.
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Yay we do get some spoilers today!  Streen Man this guy has WAY more than I thought he would have! Force Fog, the New republic has gotten so much out of this latest set! Burst of lightning with MotF2 will be fun. Cool how flaverful this guy is. Buzz Droid LOL  for the Proxy. I have no idea what could have been better, but I find it hilarious. More anti Strafe? Sounds good. Question, for magnetic Sabotage does it activate when this character moves adjacent or just when you opponent moves adjacent? I would so rather this guy over the LIN. Mandalorian Conscriptor I also thought he would have like a Mandalorian Conscription SA. Enemy conscription is great for how I prefer to play, (fight to the death, or surrender) not so much for competitive. Can't wait for Banes stats tomorrow night!
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TimmerB123 wrote:Deathwielded wrote:TimmerB123 wrote:CerousMutor wrote:
I always thought we needed a . . . mini Similar to Exar in that he sacrifices his squad. I know You have the nom bombs but a twist on it could be nice.
So you mean that a Vong character would actually sacrifice his allies to gain benefits for his squad? Maybe something like the Muun Tactics Broker, but called Sacrifice? Or perhaps "(insert YV God here) sacrifice". That would be sweet. Don't know if it's exactly right for Yu'shaa. He was a fake profit, only concerned with himself. I think this sacrifice ability might be perfect for some kind of high priest. Hmmmm Yeah especially since the Yuuzhan Vong now have so many low costing pieces, you wouldn't have much of a problem finding good sacrifices. I would need to be worth it. Maybe something like: Yun-Yammka Sacrifice usable only during this characters turn, you may choose 1 other character in your squad. Remove that character from play; that character is defeated. All Yuuzhan Vong allies get +10 damage for the rest of the round. Except you couldn't sacrifice shamed ones, that would insult the gods. Also don't know if Vong need another damage boost - I think attack boost would be better. Also - it would work better if they didn't have to activate to use it. So more like the MTB, only optional. Yun-Yammka Sacrifice After initiative is determined, you may choose 1 other Yuuzhan Vong ally without the Shamed One ability. Remove that character from play; that character is defeated. All Yuuzhan Vong allies get +4 attack for the rest of the round. I really do like this. What would it be for the other gods? What would Yun-Harla's be (The trickster goddess)? I like the attack boost better!  how about: Yun-Yuuzhan Sacrifice (creator) or Yun-Ne'Shel sacrifice (modeler, worshiped by the shapers) After initiative is determined, you may choose 1 other Yuuzhan Vong ally without the Shamed One ability. Remove that character from play; that character is defeated. All Yuuzhan Vong allies within 6 squares from the chosen character may remove upto 20 damage.(some vong healing) Yun-Harla Sacrifice After initiative is determined, you may choose 1 other Yuuzhan Vong ally without the Shamed One ability. Remove that character from play; that character is defeated. 2 allies who are the same size and within 6 squares from the chosen character may switch positions. (Vong Swap) I have to say I like the Yun-Yammka Sacrifice the best. BTW "According to their religion, life was suffering, and death was the ultimate release from that suffering. Thus, the Yuuzhan Vong were resigned, and willingly went to their deaths. In addition, the priests claimed that they did not ask of others what they themselves did not accomplish, meaning that they equally sacrificed their own numbers as well as "infidels". " -Wookieepedia So I wouldn't limit the sacrifices to only Vong characters.
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Deathwielded wrote:TimmerB123 wrote:Deathwielded wrote:TimmerB123 wrote:CerousMutor wrote:
I always thought we needed a . . . mini Similar to Exar in that he sacrifices his squad. I know You have the nom bombs but a twist on it could be nice.
So you mean that a Vong character would actually sacrifice his allies to gain benefits for his squad? Maybe something like the Muun Tactics Broker, but called Sacrifice? Or perhaps "(insert YV God here) sacrifice". That would be sweet. Don't know if it's exactly right for Yu'shaa. He was a fake profit, only concerned with himself. I think this sacrifice ability might be perfect for some kind of high priest. Hmmmm Yeah especially since the Yuuzhan Vong now have so many low costing pieces, you wouldn't have much of a problem finding good sacrifices. I would need to be worth it. Maybe something like: Yun-Yammka Sacrifice usable only during this characters turn, you may choose 1 other character in your squad. Remove that character from play; that character is defeated. All Yuuzhan Vong allies get +10 damage for the rest of the round. Except you couldn't sacrifice shamed ones, that would insult the gods. Also don't know if Vong need another damage boost - I think attack boost would be better. Also - it would work better if they didn't have to activate to use it. So more like the MTB, only optional. Yun-Yammka Sacrifice After initiative is determined, you may choose 1 other Yuuzhan Vong ally without the Shamed One ability. Remove that character from play; that character is defeated. All Yuuzhan Vong allies get +4 attack for the rest of the round. I really do like this. What would it be for the other gods? What would Yun-Harla's be (The trickster goddess)? I like the attack boost better! how about: Yun-Yuuzhan Sacrifice (creator) or Yun-Ne'Shel sacrifice (modeler, worshiped by the shapers) After initiative is determined, you may choose 1 other Yuuzhan Vong ally without the Shamed One ability. Remove that character from play; that character is defeated. All Yuuzhan Vong allies within 6 squares from the chosen character may remove upto 20 damage.(some vong healing) Yun-Harla Sacrifice After initiative is determined, you may choose 1 other Yuuzhan Vong ally without the Shamed One ability. Remove that character from play; that character is defeated. 2 allies who are the same size and within 6 squares from the chosen character may switch positions. (Vong Swap) I have to say I like the Yun-Yammka Sacrifice the best. BTW "According to their religion, life was suffering, and death was the ultimate release from that suffering. Thus, the Yuuzhan Vong were resigned, and willingly went to their deaths. In addition, the priests claimed that they did not ask of others what they themselves did not accomplish, meaning that they equally sacrificed their own numbers as well as "infidels". " -Wookieepedia So I wouldn't limit the sacrifices to only Vong characters. For game purposes it would be easier to have Sacrifice "any living any", thematic purpose I think it you'd be better "non-Yuuzhan Vong living ally"
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We desperately need a new lobot.
No, not another unique version of Lobot, but some variations on the auto include of squad modification. We're at this point in the game where, now more than ever, we have so many options on counter pieces that cost less than 20. Override, anti-strafe, extra activations, etc all are feasible depending on what your opponent fields. The problem is that Lobot is one of the few options that is both cost effective, and universal. We have the new jabba, but he's a huge cost sink and specific to BH squads. We have a few faction specific pieces, but likewise, they're limited to their own factions ability. I think it would be nice to have another 20-30 point fringe piece that isn't lobot. Not sure if there's any way to do this without making the situation worse, and not sure how to prevent that other than Rival;Lobot, which, honestly, which star wars character even fits those criteria. It just seems like there should be some other option that lobot in EVERY squad to compensate for you counters.
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adamb0nd wrote:We desperately need a new lobot.
No, not another unique version of Lobot, but some variations on the auto include of squad modification. We're at this point in the game where, now more than ever, we have so many options on counter pieces that cost less than 20. Override, anti-strafe, extra activations, etc all are feasible depending on what your opponent fields. The problem is that Lobot is one of the few options that is both cost effective, and universal. We have the new jabba, but he's a huge cost sink and specific to BH squads. We have a few faction specific pieces, but likewise, they're limited to their own factions ability. I think it would be nice to have another 20-30 point fringe piece that isn't lobot. Not sure if there's any way to do this without making the situation worse, and not sure how to prevent that other than Rival;Lobot, which, honestly, which star wars character even fits those criteria. It just seems like there should be some other option that lobot in EVERY squad to compensate for you counters. I think a good way to reduce Lobot dependency would be faction characters that can bring Fringe reinforcements, at costs that make spamming Lobot on top a dubious proposition. (so they should be better on their own than Lobot is) Are there some unique characters that would fit this flavorwise...?
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adamb0nd wrote:We desperately need a new lobot.
No, not another unique version of Lobot, but some variations on the auto include of squad modification. We're at this point in the game where, now more than ever, we have so many options on counter pieces that cost less than 20. Override, anti-strafe, extra activations, etc all are feasible depending on what your opponent fields. The problem is that Lobot is one of the few options that is both cost effective, and universal. We have the new jabba, but he's a huge cost sink and specific to BH squads. We have a few faction specific pieces, but likewise, they're limited to their own factions ability. I think it would be nice to have another 20-30 point fringe piece that isn't lobot. Not sure if there's any way to do this without making the situation worse, and not sure how to prevent that other than Rival;Lobot, which, honestly, which star wars character even fits those criteria. It just seems like there should be some other option that lobot in EVERY squad to compensate for you counters. This is a tricky situation, as you indicated. One big problem is reinforcement stacking. Without "Rival Lobot" (which is probably silly) people will bring both. You mentioned Jabba, and surprisingly enough original Jabba has placed top 4 in a regional, and Sthlrd 2 has a ridiculous but shockingly tough New Jabba + Lobot + Gha + activation control squad that can outactivate ANY SQUAD and is insanely strong. I won't go into further detail because I don't want to encourage this giant NPE of a squad. Look what just won the world championship - Marn + Lobot was key. It's getting to the point where it takes 10 minutes to complete your squad after revealing your squad to your opponent. I think another fringe reinforcement piece would ultimately be bad. We do have another piece coming that may help 1 faction out with this a little more.
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adamb0nd wrote:We desperately need a new lobot.
No, not another unique version of Lobot, but some variations on the auto include of squad modification. We're at this point in the game where, now more than ever, we have so many options on counter pieces that cost less than 20. Override, anti-strafe, extra activations, etc all are feasible depending on what your opponent fields. The problem is that Lobot is one of the few options that is both cost effective, and universal. We have the new jabba, but he's a huge cost sink and specific to BH squads. We have a few faction specific pieces, but likewise, they're limited to their own factions ability. I think it would be nice to have another 20-30 point fringe piece that isn't lobot. Not sure if there's any way to do this without making the situation worse, and not sure how to prevent that other than Rival;Lobot, which, honestly, which star wars character even fits those criteria. It just seems like there should be some other option that lobot in EVERY squad to compensate for you counters. Interesting thoughts. Not exactly sure how I feel about it. Although I will add that a thought crossed my mind for perhaps the first time ever last night after seeing more spoilers and that is: Have we gotten to the point that all squads must now be 161 points? Lobot and Gha Nachkt for the first 39 points and then everything else.
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And to clarify, my previous post isn't a shot at any of the new reinforcement counters being created, it's more an acknowledgement of how strong they are to combat what would otherwise be an NPE or auto-loss situation.
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Lobot is always a consideration for me. Not Gha.
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CerousMutor wrote:Deathwielded wrote:TimmerB123 wrote:Deathwielded wrote:TimmerB123 wrote:CerousMutor wrote:
I always thought we needed a . . . mini Similar to Exar in that he sacrifices his squad. I know You have the nom bombs but a twist on it could be nice.
So you mean that a Vong character would actually sacrifice his allies to gain benefits for his squad? Maybe something like the Muun Tactics Broker, but called Sacrifice? Or perhaps "(insert YV God here) sacrifice". That would be sweet. Don't know if it's exactly right for Yu'shaa. He was a fake profit, only concerned with himself. I think this sacrifice ability might be perfect for some kind of high priest. Hmmmm Yeah especially since the Yuuzhan Vong now have so many low costing pieces, you wouldn't have much of a problem finding good sacrifices. I would need to be worth it. Maybe something like: Yun-Yammka Sacrifice usable only during this characters turn, you may choose 1 other character in your squad. Remove that character from play; that character is defeated. All Yuuzhan Vong allies get +10 damage for the rest of the round. Except you couldn't sacrifice shamed ones, that would insult the gods. Also don't know if Vong need another damage boost - I think attack boost would be better. Also - it would work better if they didn't have to activate to use it. So more like the MTB, only optional. Yun-Yammka Sacrifice After initiative is determined, you may choose 1 other Yuuzhan Vong ally without the Shamed One ability. Remove that character from play; that character is defeated. All Yuuzhan Vong allies get +4 attack for the rest of the round. I really do like this. What would it be for the other gods? What would Yun-Harla's be (The trickster goddess)? I like the attack boost better! how about: Yun-Yuuzhan Sacrifice (creator) or Yun-Ne'Shel sacrifice (modeler, worshiped by the shapers) After initiative is determined, you may choose 1 other Yuuzhan Vong ally without the Shamed One ability. Remove that character from play; that character is defeated. All Yuuzhan Vong allies within 6 squares from the chosen character may remove upto 20 damage.(some vong healing) Yun-Harla Sacrifice After initiative is determined, you may choose 1 other Yuuzhan Vong ally without the Shamed One ability. Remove that character from play; that character is defeated. 2 allies who are the same size and within 6 squares from the chosen character may switch positions. (Vong Swap) I have to say I like the Yun-Yammka Sacrifice the best. BTW "According to their religion, life was suffering, and death was the ultimate release from that suffering. Thus, the Yuuzhan Vong were resigned, and willingly went to their deaths. In addition, the priests claimed that they did not ask of others what they themselves did not accomplish, meaning that they equally sacrificed their own numbers as well as "infidels". " -Wookieepedia So I wouldn't limit the sacrifices to only Vong characters. For game purposes it would be easier to have Sacrifice "any living any", thematic purpose I think it you'd be better "non-Yuuzhan Vong living ally" Disagree on that point. Most Yuuzhan Vong believed that the infidels were heretics, and must die. That is not the same as a sacrifice. A sacrifice must be something the gods find pleasing. So sacrificing an infidel would anger the gods. Infidels must be killed, pure Yuuzhan Vong were the only acceptable sacrifices.
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All good points. I feel like the buzz droid is a prime example of where we're at. 6 points and a great design. But would your average squad want to include them in place of 2x mice, 2x uggies, 2 xbrutes, or crumb? No, this piece is going to have one user: wait to see what your opponent fields, and then us lobot and gha to dump 4 of them. Don't get me wrong, i think that that's a great mechanic, as we're dealing with a way to give squads a fighting chance against bad match ups, and i love that. However, as Timmer said, it's also extending pre-game prep. I do like swines solution, but it would have to be done creatively to prevent, again, Timmer's point about fielding 3 pieces and then constructing a counter squad on the fly.
Could always leave out the Rival:Lobot, which is just an obvious nerf, and go with a more elegant wording like:
"Contractual Agreement" or "Highest Bidder": Other character's in your squad lose Reinforcements.
or even if you don't want to be so restrictive:
Price gauge: Characters brought in through other character's Reinforcements cost double
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adamb0nd wrote:
Could always leave out the Rival:Lobot, which is just an obvious nerf, and go with a more elegant wording like:
"Contractual Agreement" or "Highest Bidder": Other character's in your squad lose Reinforcements.
or even if you don't want to be so restrictive:
Price gauge: Characters brought in through other character's Reinforcements cost double
Really like these ideas There is still a core problem of - in order to make people play a piece over Lobot, it has to be better than Lobot. Do we really want to make pieces better than Lobot? And if we do, won't it just be the new auto-include? Lots of quandaries. No perfect solution.
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TimmerB123 wrote:adamb0nd wrote:
Could always leave out the Rival:Lobot, which is just an obvious nerf, and go with a more elegant wording like:
"Contractual Agreement" or "Highest Bidder": Other character's in your squad lose Reinforcements.
or even if you don't want to be so restrictive:
Price gauge: Characters brought in through other character's Reinforcements cost double
Really like these ideas There is still a core problem of - in order to make people play a piece over Lobot, it has to be better than Lobot. Do we really want to make pieces better than Lobot? And if we do, won't it just be the new auto-include? Lots of quandaries. No perfect solution. I don't think you need to make him BETTER than Lobot just different. People used to think that Thrawn would always be an auotinclude. And he is still in a lot of squads, but he is no longer necessary thanks to Daala. But if he helps some squad types more than some cheapo override with mediocre stats (Rebel Commando squads for instance who can grab it in spades) than I think something could work. I don't have any super concrete suggestions at the moment, I'm sorry to say, but I do think it can be done. (I like the name Contractual Agreement...I've always thought Highest Bidder would be good on a Bounty Hunter or Mercenary style piece or one that boosts them.) The other option is of course, to literally make a new Lobot who just does something different. I like CLO but he just misses in competitive play
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TimmerB123 wrote:CerousMutor wrote:Deathwielded wrote:TimmerB123 wrote:Deathwielded wrote:TimmerB123 wrote:CerousMutor wrote:
I always thought we needed a . . . mini Similar to Exar in that he sacrifices his squad. I know You have the nom bombs but a twist on it could be nice.
So you mean that a Vong character would actually sacrifice his allies to gain benefits for his squad? Maybe something like the Muun Tactics Broker, but called Sacrifice? Or perhaps "(insert YV God here) sacrifice". That would be sweet. Don't know if it's exactly right for Yu'shaa. He was a fake profit, only concerned with himself. I think this sacrifice ability might be perfect for some kind of high priest. Hmmmm Yeah especially since the Yuuzhan Vong now have so many low costing pieces, you wouldn't have much of a problem finding good sacrifices. I would need to be worth it. Maybe something like: Yun-Yammka Sacrifice usable only during this characters turn, you may choose 1 other character in your squad. Remove that character from play; that character is defeated. All Yuuzhan Vong allies get +10 damage for the rest of the round. Except you couldn't sacrifice shamed ones, that would insult the gods. Also don't know if Vong need another damage boost - I think attack boost would be better. Also - it would work better if they didn't have to activate to use it. So more like the MTB, only optional. Yun-Yammka Sacrifice After initiative is determined, you may choose 1 other Yuuzhan Vong ally without the Shamed One ability. Remove that character from play; that character is defeated. All Yuuzhan Vong allies get +4 attack for the rest of the round. I really do like this. What would it be for the other gods? What would Yun-Harla's be (The trickster goddess)? I like the attack boost better! how about: Yun-Yuuzhan Sacrifice (creator) or Yun-Ne'Shel sacrifice (modeler, worshiped by the shapers) After initiative is determined, you may choose 1 other Yuuzhan Vong ally without the Shamed One ability. Remove that character from play; that character is defeated. All Yuuzhan Vong allies within 6 squares from the chosen character may remove upto 20 damage.(some vong healing) Yun-Harla Sacrifice After initiative is determined, you may choose 1 other Yuuzhan Vong ally without the Shamed One ability. Remove that character from play; that character is defeated. 2 allies who are the same size and within 6 squares from the chosen character may switch positions. (Vong Swap) I have to say I like the Yun-Yammka Sacrifice the best. BTW "According to their religion, life was suffering, and death was the ultimate release from that suffering. Thus, the Yuuzhan Vong were resigned, and willingly went to their deaths. In addition, the priests claimed that they did not ask of others what they themselves did not accomplish, meaning that they equally sacrificed their own numbers as well as "infidels". " -Wookieepedia So I wouldn't limit the sacrifices to only Vong characters. For game purposes it would be easier to have Sacrifice "any living any", thematic purpose I think it you'd be better "non-Yuuzhan Vong living ally" Disagree on that point. Most Yuuzhan Vong believed that the infidels were heretics, and must die. That is not the same as a sacrifice. A sacrifice must be something the gods find pleasing. So sacrificing an infidel would anger the gods. Infidels must be killed, pure Yuuzhan Vong were the only acceptable sacrifices. I must disagree with your disagreement. The Yuuzhan Vong viewed each death of an infidel as a sacrifice to thier God Yun-Yammka. The held ceremonies where there were ritual sacrifices, but every death was pleasing, except that of the shamed ones.
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TimmerB123 wrote:adamb0nd wrote:
Could always leave out the Rival:Lobot, which is just an obvious nerf, and go with a more elegant wording like:
"Contractual Agreement" or "Highest Bidder": Other character's in your squad lose Reinforcements.
or even if you don't want to be so restrictive:
Price gauge: Characters brought in through other character's Reinforcements cost double
Really like these ideas There is still a core problem of - in order to make people play a piece over Lobot, it has to be better than Lobot. Do we really want to make pieces better than Lobot? And if we do, won't it just be the new auto-include? Lots of quandaries. No perfect solution. Well the only way is to create a character that offers the same but with a difference. So its a choice, not a replacement.
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