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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/5/2009 Posts: 2,240 Location: Akron Ohio, just south of dantooine.
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TimmerB123 wrote:Finally, it also works nicely with a squib trader to get relay orders right where you need it or blow a door deep in enemy territory. "Huuummmyyaaa....Thank you for making a simple door happy." Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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Cassus Fett, from Vengeance Quote:37 points, Mandalorian Hit Points: 70 Defense: 18 Attack: 12 Damage: 20
Special Abilities Unique Twin Attack (Whenever this character attacks, he makes 1 extra attack against the same target) Beskar'gam (When this character takes damage, it reduces the damage dealt by 10 with a save of 11) Coordinated Command (Allied Mandalorian commanders gain Relay Orders) Never Tell Me the Odds (Suppresses enemy special abilities that modify initiative) Rapport (Costs 1 less when in the same squad as a character named Mandalore the Ultimate) Relay Orders (Each allied commander can count distance from this character as well as from itself for the purpose of commander effects) Synergy +4 (A character named Mandalore the Ultimate gets +4 Attack and +4 Defense while within 6 squares of this character)
Commander Effect At the end of this character's turn, choose 1 non-Unique Mandalorian follower within 2 squares. Until the end of the round, that follower gains Fire Support Mission. Cassus Fett is a really interesting piece; he's not worth 37 points just as an attacker, although twin +12s with Berker'gam does make him a nice third or fourth attacker. His synergy with Mandalore the Ultimate is nice, but not really a competitive option, since Ultimate is too expensive for the modern game. At 37 points, Cassus is expensive and you have to squeeze as much as you can out of him to make him worthwhile. So he has: - Never Tell Me The Odds - is obviously a huge ability, as it really stifles some competitive squads like Thrawn and MTB/Poggles, that are reliant of initiative control. Since he's the only Mando or Fringe piece with Never Tell Me The Odds, he can be an interesting meta call. - Coordinated Command/Relay Orders - since Kelborn also has these, and is an auto-include, they aren't as important on Cassus Fett. - Fire Support Mission - Fire Support Mission can be a great fodder clearer, although it does really need Cloaked (Death Watch Saboteurs are good here) or a movement breaker (Mandalore the Vindicated's CE is probably the best option) to really work, since it replaces turn for the recipient. Cassus Fett did win the California Regional in 2012, but maybe his stocks have fallen a little since then, especially with the emergence of Kelborn as a Mando go to, and I think right now he's just outside the competitive spectrum, although maybe there's a build that utilises him really well and proves me wrong. Really nice flavourful piece though, 7/10.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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Rocket Battle Droid, from The Clone Wars Quote:6 points, Separatist Hit Points: 10 Defense: 12 Attack: 2 Damage: 10
Droid (Immune to critical hits; not subject to commander effects) Flight (Ignores difficult terrain, enemy characters, low objects, and pits when moving) I guess the question here is whether you're willing to pay 2 extra points for Flight and improved stats over a Vanilla Battle Droid. I think most of the time, I'd go with the vanilla Battle Droid, but this still isn't a bad piece; compared to the other Separatist droids we've covered so far, the Rocket Battle Droid feels very competent - as any 5 point shooter (assuming you're playing Gha Nachkt) shooter that's subject to a ton of CEs and SAs is. 6/10.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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Yuuzhan Vong Jedi Hunter, from Legacy of the Force Quote:20 points, Yuuzhan Vong Hit Points: 70 Defense: 16 Attack: 9 Damage: 10
Special Abilities Force Immunity (Enemies cannot affect this character with Force powers, or spend Force points to reroll attacks against this character or to respond to this character's attacks and abilities) Jedi Hunter (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against enemies with Force ratings) Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies) Thud Bug (Replaces attacks: range 6; 10 damage, living target is considered activated this round; save 11 negates. Huge and larger characters ignore the nondamaging effect.) Twin Attack (Whenever this character attacks, he makes 1 extra attack against the same target) Vonduun Crab Armor 6 (When this character takes damage, he can reduce the damage dealt by 10 with a save of 6) This Jedi Hunter is a faction defining non-unique for the Vong, like the Elite Rebel Commando or the Mandalorian Scout for their respective factions. He's quite durable for 20 points with Crab Armour 6 and 70 hit points. His weaknesses are symptomatic of his faction as a whole under WOTC; the Jedi Hunter is very strong against Jedi, but he's reliant on damage boosts like Shaper and Scarification against anything else, and he has a lack of ranged defense. But in a Jedi dominated meta, the Jedi Hunter is nasty, and still a tournament worthy piece. 8/10.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/9/2008 Posts: 4,729 Location: Chicago
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TheHutts wrote:Yuuzhan Vong Jedi Hunter, from Legacy of the Force Quote:20 points, Yuuzhan Vong Hit Points: 70 Defense: 16 Attack: 9 Damage: 10
Special Abilities Force Immunity (Enemies cannot affect this character with Force powers, or spend Force points to reroll attacks against this character or to respond to this character's attacks and abilities) Jedi Hunter (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against enemies with Force ratings) Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies) Thud Bug (Replaces attacks: range 6; 10 damage, living target is considered activated this round; save 11 negates. Huge and larger characters ignore the nondamaging effect.) Twin Attack (Whenever this character attacks, he makes 1 extra attack against the same target) Vonduun Crab Armor 6 (When this character takes damage, he can reduce the damage dealt by 10 with a save of 6) This Jedi Hunter is a faction defining non-unique for the Vong, like the Elite Rebel Commando or the Mandalorian Scout for their respective factions. He's quite durable for 20 points with Crab Armour 6 and 70 hit points. His weaknesses are symptomatic of his faction as a whole under WOTC; the Jedi Hunter is very strong against Jedi, but he's reliant on damage boosts like Shaper and Scarification against anything else, and he has a lack of ranged defense. But in a Jedi dominated meta, the Jedi Hunter is nasty, and still a tournament worthy piece. 8/10. Agreed on all points. One if the focuses of the Vong in some of the later vsets (well sets 5 and 7 anyway), is to help the Vong get to the fight. As sturdy as these guys are for 20 pts, they still struggle vs guns. So we've added shapers and priests who have additional effects to help them get to the enemy. Zenoc Quah gives evade along with shaper and a +4 attack, along with an additional boost vs Jedi if you build right. Nei Rin gives shaper along with a defensive boost to crab armor wearers vs ranged attacks and lets them move an extra 2 squares if they fail a crab armor save, which could help them avoid additional attacks or move them into strike range. Eminance Harrar gives scarification along with a method to turn all range 6 bodyguards (50/50 chance). He also makes anyone adjacent fail saves, enemies and allies alike - so pair him up with a YV Seer and her painful screech can automatically give your Jedi Hunters (or other attackers) scarification, and extends Yun Harla devotion and other YV SAs 2 more squares. Finally the Domain Shai Subaltern gives Vong Charging. So all that adds up to making the YV Jedi Hunters into quite a nasty threat again. And vset 9 has ideas bubbling to help Vong get to the fight too (apparently it's only odd numbered sets).
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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IG-88, Bounty Hunter, from Bounty Hunters Quote:44 points, Fringe Hit Points: 80 Defense: 19 Attack: 9 Damage: 20
Special Abilities Unique Droid (Immune to critical hits; not subject to commander effects) Bounty Hunter +6 (+6 Attack against Unique enemies) Double Attack (On its turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving) Flamethrower 20 (Replaces attacks: range 6; 20 damage to target and to each character adjacent to that target) Opportunist (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an enemy who has activated this round) Sonic Stunner (Replaces attacks: range 6; living target and each living character adjacent to that target are considered activated this round; save 11 negates. Huge and larger characters ignore this special ability.)
IG-88 Bounty Hunter is obviously outclassed by the IG-88 Assassin Droid from Dark Times - I think it's a no-brainer to pay an extra 5 points for 40 extra hit points and +1 defense, as the pieces are relatively equivalent otherwise. So you'd think this piece would be dead and buried, since its unique and its supplanter is clearly better. But with the advent of IG-88A, this piece has some chance at some play - the IG-88A allows multiple IG-88s in the same squad, which means if you do want to squeeze a third IG-88 in a squad, Bounty Hunter is your droid. I don't know if three IG-88s is the best option in a competitive squad - the most successful builds I've seen use two IG-88 droids with support, but at least he's now liberated from the eternal bin of darkness. 6/10.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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Polis Massa Medic, from Revenge of the Sith Quote:9 points, Republic Hit Points: 10 Defense: 11 Attack: 0 Damage: 0
Special Abilities Heal 10 (Replaces attacks: touch; remove 10 damage from a living character) Healing's not a very efficient strategy in this game, and there are much better healers than the Polis Massa Medic. You can heal a bunch of damage with this guy, Tarpals, and a Bacta Tank, but it's a lot of points for not a lot of return. Instead of this medic, you can pay an extra point and get Owen and Beru Lars, who have an extra 20 hit points, and can also attack and combine fire, or an extra 3 points for a Kaminoan Medic with Heal 20. And really, the most competitive healer has proven to be Dr Evazan, Galactic Criminal, who brings excitement to the surgery table. You could argue that the PMM is the cheapest Heal 10 piece available to the Republic, and could get a 2, but I think he's so weak for 9 points that it's irrelevant. 1/10.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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And here's a box and whiskers plot of all the ratings so far. A: up to and including Bounty Hunters (the old days) B: Alliance and Empire through to Knights of the Old Republic (the power creeping phase) C: Clone Wars through to Masters of the Force (the modern WOTC sets) D: Destiny of the Force through to present (v-sets) I still think the Alliance and Empire -> KOTOR era has been a bit over-represented by good pieces, but otherwise it looks about right.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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Satele Shan, from Jedi vs Sith Quote:37 points, Old Republic Hit Points: 100 Defense: 19 Attack: 12 Damage: 20
Special Abilities Unique Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies) Double Attack (On her turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving) Bodyguard (If an adjacent ally would take damage from an attack, this character can take the damage instead) Cunning Attack (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an enemy who has not activated this round) Intuition (Once per round, after initiative is determined, this character can immediately move up to her speed before any other character activates) Mettle (If this character spends 1 Force point to reroll, add +4 to the result) Parry (When hit by a melee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)
Force Powers Force 2 Force Renewal 1 (This character gets 1 Force point each time she activates) Master of the Force 2 (May spend Force points up to 2 times in a single turn) Absorb Energy (Force 2: When hit by a nonmelee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11. Remove damage from this character equal to the prevented damage.) Force Leap (Force 1: This turn, this character can move through enemy characters without provoking attacks of opportunity) Force Push 2 (Force 2, replaces attacks: range 6; 20 damage; push back target 2 squares if Huge or smaller) Lightsaber Assault (Force 1, replaces attacks: Make 2 attacks) The piece that launched a 10 page "this piece is overpowered" thread (see here: http://www.bloomilk.com/forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=11597). In hindsight she hasn't gone on to dominate the meta at all, although she is strong enough that she's the melee interference piece of choice in a wide range of Old Republic squads. Satele's strength is that she can fill a wide variety of roles - she has Parry and Absorb Energy with MOTF2, so she can be a great melee interference piece. She has bodyguard, so she can protect other key pieces. With Intuition, Cunning, Force Leap, and Lightsaber Assault, she's a serious melee threat with a lot of range. And she also has Force Push 2 to give her a direct damage option. Having said that, she definitely has weaknesses - her ranged defense is dependent on Force Absorb, so any force immune shooters like Cad Bane with Pellaeon or Dash with Talon Karrde will rip her to shreds. And her stats and hitpoints are fairly mediocre for a 37 point Unique melee piece. In New Zealand, she's been effective paired with Darth Revan Sith Lord in an Old Republic squad (along with Bastila and a Jedi Crusader) - she can get really deep into an opponents backfield quickly and kill something key. Satele Shan is a really strong piece, but she the marquee character from a popular Star Wars game trailer; I think it's fitting that she's a strong piece. 10/10.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 1/30/2009 Posts: 6,457 Location: Southern Illinois
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TheHutts wrote:Satele Shan
Satele Shan is a really strong piece, but she the marquee character from a popular Star Wars game trailer; I think it's fitting that she's a strong piece. 10/10. I'm waiting for a version to represent her as portrayed in the trailer (assuming I'm thinking of the same one you referred to). This version isn't at that level, but unquestionably is still a great piece.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 9/30/2008 Posts: 1,288
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Man, I had forgotten that thread. Possibly the biggest overreaction to a piece ever (although to be fair, there have been a lot of them over the years). As far as I can see (based on reports on Gamers), Satele won exactly 1 regional, and it was also the only one that she even placed in the top 4 in. She is a fantastic piece, worthy of a 10/10, but not quite overpowered.
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Rank: Moderator Groups: Member
, Moderator
Joined: 5/26/2009 Posts: 8,428
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In that trailer, where she catches the lightsaber with her hand, she wasn't even a grandmaster yet. Not even a master, actually.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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Considering the two Regionals this year have been won by Force Immune shooter squads, she's probably not a good meta choice at the moment....
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 7/9/2008 Posts: 4,729 Location: Chicago
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TheHutts wrote:Satele Shan, from Jedi vs Sith Quote:37 points, Old Republic Hit Points: 100 Defense: 19 Attack: 12 Damage: 20
Special Abilities Unique Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies) Double Attack (On her turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving) Bodyguard (If an adjacent ally would take damage from an attack, this character can take the damage instead) Cunning Attack (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an enemy who has not activated this round) Intuition (Once per round, after initiative is determined, this character can immediately move up to her speed before any other character activates) Mettle (If this character spends 1 Force point to reroll, add +4 to the result) Parry (When hit by a melee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)
Force Powers Force 2 Force Renewal 1 (This character gets 1 Force point each time she activates) Master of the Force 2 (May spend Force points up to 2 times in a single turn) Absorb Energy (Force 2: When hit by a nonmelee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11. Remove damage from this character equal to the prevented damage.) Force Leap (Force 1: This turn, this character can move through enemy characters without provoking attacks of opportunity) Force Push 2 (Force 2, replaces attacks: range 6; 20 damage; push back target 2 squares if Huge or smaller) Lightsaber Assault (Force 1, replaces attacks: Make 2 attacks) The piece that launched a 10 page "this piece is overpowered" thread (see here: http://www.bloomilk.com/forums/default.aspx?g=posts&t=11597). In hindsight she hasn't gone on to dominate the meta at all, although she is strong enough that she's the melee interference piece of choice in a wide range of Old Republic squads. Satele's strength is that she can fill a wide variety of roles - she has Parry and Absorb Energy with MOTF2, so she can be a great melee interference piece. She has bodyguard, so she can protect other key pieces. With Intuition, Cunning, Force Leap, and Lightsaber Assault, she's a serious melee threat with a lot of range. And she also has Force Push 2 to give her a direct damage option. Having said that, she definitely has weaknesses - her ranged defense is dependent on Force Absorb, so any force immune shooters like Cad Bane with Pellaeon or Dash with Talon Karrde will rip her to shreds. And her stats and hitpoints are fairly mediocre for a 37 point Unique melee piece. In New Zealand, she's been effective paired with Darth Revan Sith Lord in an Old Republic squad (along with Bastila and a Jedi Crusader) - she can get really deep into an opponents backfield quickly and kill something key. Satele Shan is a really strong piece, but she the marquee character from a popular Star Wars game trailer; I think it's fitting that she's a strong piece. 10/10. My issue with her isn't so much that's she's "overpowered", so much as she's just a sloppy mess of hodge podge design. It feels like a fanboy sixth grader threw her together. No elegance whatsoever.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 1,249
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Satale Shan is a REALLY good piece. Definitely deserving the 10/10. I'm always amazed by how good she is whenever I play/play against her. I could understand such a long thread debating over her. Yes she has her weaknesses, but I think that as far as the OR is concerned she is in the top three pieces in the whole faction. (after Bastila, JM and Atton "jaq") Huge range and very good defensively as well as being able to deal pretty good amounts of damage even on the move. her card is stacked with all kinds of goodies. She is IMHO one of the best Melee pieces we have. When I first saw her I was disappointed we didn't have a Grand Master level piece and thought we could've made her better. (at a higher point cost) I could still see her as a BHC piece in the future. But she is a VERY good piece at a very good/low price. The more I see her get played the more I think the V-set designers really made a very flavorful piece and a very usable piece. great job 10/10
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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Talz Spy, from Alliance and Empire Quote:12 points, Fringe Hit Points: 40 Defense: 14 Attack: 5 Damage: 10
Special Abilities Advantageous Attack (+10 Damage against an enemy who has not activated this round) Double Claw Attack (On his turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving; both attacks must be against adjacent enemies) Sabotage (Replaces attacks: Adjacent enemy characters with Mounted Weapon cannot move more than their speed during a phase for the rest of the skirmish) Back in 2007, Mounted Weapon pieces like the Hailfire Droid and the AT-ST were dominating the game with their Mounted Weapons and massive speed. Something had to be done to slow them down, and the Talz Spy was a simple, yet elegant, solution. Sabotage allowed him to get in there, and slow those Mounted Weapon pieces right down, restoring balance to both the game and the entire galaxy. Seriously, this piece does have a bit of potential for a Fringe scrub - that +5 attack is low, but 40 hit points is good for a 12 point piece, and it can pick up twin from a Czerka, and can get double against adjacent pieces, and as a Fringe scrub its subject to lots of boosts. So Talz spies can be boosted nicely, but they're still going to struggle to see play time against much better Fringe pieces in the same price range; the Klat Assassin, the Rodian Assassin, the Kel Dor Bounty Hunter, and the Jawa Scavenger are all a lot stronger. 4/10.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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Luke Skywalker, Jedi Master from Universe Quote:74 points, New Republic Hit Points: 130 Defense: 22 Attack: 16 Damage: 20
Special Abilities Unique Melee Attack (Can attack only adjacent enemies) Triple Attack (On his turn, this character can make 2 extra attacks instead of moving)
Force Powers Force 2 Force Leap (Force 1: This turn, this character can move through enemy characters without provoking attacks of opportunity) Force Renewal 1 (This character gets 1 Force point each time he activates) Lightsaber Block (Force 1: When hit by a melee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11) Lightsaber Deflect (Force 1: When hit by a nonmelee attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11) Lightsaber Sweep (Force 1, replaces attacks: Can attack each adjacent enemy once) Lightsaber Throw (Force 1, replaces attacks: Attack 1 enemy within 6 squares) Master Speed (Force 1: This character can move 6 extra squares on his turn as part of his move)
Commander Effect Each ally with a Force rating starts with +1 Force. Luke Skywalker, Jedi Master has to be one of the worst thought out pieces in the game. It's almost as though the designers through that giving him a laundry list of force powers was enough to make him a worthy Jedi Master piece. He has a huge list of force powers, great stats, reasonable hit points, and a vaguely useful CE - but at 74 points Luke Skywalker, Jedi Master is one of the worst value pieces in the game. With low mobility and no internal synergy, he's arguably inferior to the 20 point cheaper Kyle Katarn Jedi Battlemaster, another New Republic Triple Attacker who also brings Disruptive and Grenades 40 to play, and can access GMA and evade since he's a follower. The v-sets have given him some hope of play in 200 point Epic Duos with the Epic Mara Jade helping him out, but beyond that he's doomed to life as a proxy for the much better Luke Skywalker Galactic Hero. 1/10.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/30/2008 Posts: 2,093
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Even when Luke came out he was overcosted by about 20 points. Lower his cost and give him motf2 and he would have been decent when he had come out but would still lag behind later nr wotc releases (Mara or kyle or pretty much anyone)
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 9/30/2008 Posts: 1,288
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The best example of how overpriced Luke JM is would be comparing him to Vader JH in the same set. For 1 point more, you get +10 HP, +1 Def, 2 great special abilities, replace Force Leap, LS Throw, and Master Speed with Force Whirlwind and Force Grip 10, and lose the mediocre CE.
What you gain for Vader is way better than what you lose, all for just 1 point more.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 6/23/2010 Posts: 3,562 Location: The Hutt, New Zealand
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Crimson Nova Bounty Hunter, from Jedi Academy Quote:15 points, Fringe Hit Points: 30 Defense: 14 Attack: 4 Damage: 10
Special Abilities Bounty Hunter +2 (+2 Attack against Unique enemies) Cunning Attack (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an enemy who has not activated this round) Jedi Hunter (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against enemies with Force ratings)
The Crimson Nova Bounty Hunter isn't bottom of the heap by any means, but she's too fragile and situational to be a really good choice to build around. Against an unactivated Unique Jedi she can hit for 30 damage at +14. Against an activated Vong Jedi Hunter, she's shooting for 10 damage at +4. She could be a reasonable choice for reinforcements or reserves in some matchups, especially in squads that already have twin, but really her lack of defensive abilities means that cheaper pieces like the Rodian Assassin with Stealth or the Klat Assassin with Cloaked are much more solid choices. 3/10.
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