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TimmerB123 wrote:
1 Barris Offee, Rogue Jedi
2 Arkanian Jedi General
3 Darth Bane Sith'ari
4 Tantive IV Trooper
5 Master Tholme
You've still got most of your top 5 under wraps!
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Deathwielded wrote:Lord Scourge Well I was figuring on Internal Strife, but Switching Loyalties is painful!  At least he has MotF2 and maybe a third shot at a reroll with CotE. He can be a super deadly assassin (whats his max damage without support? 160 with 4 attacks?) why didn't he get Lightsaber throw? A couple of Questions. For Switching Loyalties, does he make the save before he attacks? And for Lightsaber Bravado, does the +6 attack stack with his +10 attack? I thought it works similarly to Blaster 20 which replaces attacks and gives you a new attack value. Have I been using that SA wrong? (meaning should I have been combining the attack values and using it as a boost? ) Force Powers work differently than those SA's. Those SA's replace attack stats, but the Force Powers, like Dark Temptation and Dispassionate Killer, add a bonus. So 4 attacks at +16 for 40, 50 with Bandon, is nuking any baddy in the game--if the Opponent has any Emperor, then you can also add Overwhelming Power to the mix. Just keep some Sith Pawns on hand. Read Shifting Loyalties more closely, it is quite clear when he makes the save. Keep in mind it's not necessary for Twin Attacks.
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Gungan Batman Clone wrote:
A question for the Seer, are abilities that have to be touch now range 2?
Nope. glossary wrote:touch
Some special abilities and Force powers have a range of touch, meaning they can be used only on adjacent characters or on the acting character.
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swinefeld wrote:Gungan Batman Clone wrote:
A question for the Seer, are abilities that have to be touch now range 2?
Nope. glossary wrote:touch
Some special abilities and Force powers have a range of touch, meaning they can be used only on adjacent characters or on the acting character. Ok, thanks.
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TheHutts wrote:TimmerB123 wrote:
1 Barris Offee, Rogue Jedi
2 Arkanian Jedi General
3 Darth Bane Sith'ari
4 Tantive IV Trooper
5 Master Tholme
You've still got most of your top 5 under wraps! Tholme and the Arkanian General have been released. I'm waiting to see this Barris.
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TheHutts wrote:TimmerB123 wrote:
1 Barris Offee, Rogue Jedi
2 Arkanian Jedi General
3 Darth Bane Sith'ari
4 Tantive IV Trooper
5 Master Tholme
You've still got most of your top 5 under wraps! It's almost like I did that on purpose. ;) Those were my top 5 that I did not have a heavy hand in designing. (Though I did help push the AJG in the non-Bastila-squad direction a bit after he was started). One of my favorites that I had a large hand in is Commander Sha'kel. Still a group effort to be sure, especially with the changed-many-many-times CE, but I am excited to see what everyone thinks of him when he gets revealed. Big boost for the Vong
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The Celestial Warrior wrote:Deathwielded wrote:Lord Scourge Well I was figuring on Internal Strife, but Switching Loyalties is painful! At least he has MotF2 and maybe a third shot at a reroll with CotE. He can be a super deadly assassin (whats his max damage without support? 160 with 4 attacks?) why didn't he get Lightsaber throw? A couple of Questions. For Switching Loyalties, does he make the save before he attacks? And for Lightsaber Bravado, does the +6 attack stack with his +10 attack? I thought it works similarly to Blaster 20 which replaces attacks and gives you a new attack value. Have I been using that SA wrong? (meaning should I have been combining the attack values and using it as a boost? ) Force Powers work differently than those SA's. Those SA's replace attack stats, but the Force Powers, like Dark Temptation and Dispassionate Killer, add a bonus. So 4 attacks at +16 for 40, 50 with Bandon, is nuking any baddy in the game--if the Opponent has any Emperor, then you can also add Overwhelming Power to the mix. Just keep some Sith Pawns on hand. Read Shifting Loyalties more closely, it is quite clear when he makes the save. Keep in mind it's not necessary for Twin Attacks. Brad had a very clear vision with Lord Scourge from the beginning of a "nuke piece". High risk, high reward. It took a lot of tinkering to get it (to what we hope is) balanced. The save happens immediately after each time you TARGET a higher point enemy. So if it's a normal attack, he has to make one save and gets up to 2 rerolls (MotF2) plus one for a Sith Pawn. If you attempt to use Lightsaber Bravado +20, you get 4 attacks (double + twin) and have to make 2 saves (one before each set of twin attacks) and can reroll once (MotF2) plus one for a Sith Pawn. Then if you want to cut through a monster character with defensive abilities, you stack on overwhelming force, but that's 2 saves, no rerolls (except 1 for a sith pawn) for 160 unavoidable damage. So the damage scales up as the risk does. He's a very interesting design. Really look forward to seeing how people use him.
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Deathwielded wrote:
The Seer brings recon and Painful screach to the Vong, both of which can be quite helpful. (now we just need a character with Immediate Yuuzan Vong Reserves!)
The CE might help, but I don't imagine squad being made around it.
Painful screech is helpful to scar up Vong to get scarification. Look at Synergy with Harrar - with proper setup you can auto-fail crab armor saves to scar up whoever you want. Then range 5 Yun Harla Devotion is REALLY useful! Disagree about the assessment of the CE. It's really big for the Vong. They have so many range 6 abilities (and range 3) given through CEs, and disruptive (especially higher hp disruptive) was a virtual auto-loss for those squads. Now you can compete vs disruptive through clever placement. I think this piece with be a great Quorreal reinforcement if you have a spit swarm or a bunch of blast - bugging warriors, and you can bring one in if you face disruptive.
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How does the Seer increasing ranges by 2 interact with the Yammosk extending range 6 SAs?
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TimmerB123 wrote:The Celestial Warrior wrote:Deathwielded wrote:Lord Scourge Well I was figuring on Internal Strife, but Switching Loyalties is painful! At least he has MotF2 and maybe a third shot at a reroll with CotE. He can be a super deadly assassin (whats his max damage without support? 160 with 4 attacks?) why didn't he get Lightsaber throw? A couple of Questions. For Switching Loyalties, does he make the save before he attacks? And for Lightsaber Bravado, does the +6 attack stack with his +10 attack? I thought it works similarly to Blaster 20 which replaces attacks and gives you a new attack value. Have I been using that SA wrong? (meaning should I have been combining the attack values and using it as a boost? ) Force Powers work differently than those SA's. Those SA's replace attack stats, but the Force Powers, like Dark Temptation and Dispassionate Killer, add a bonus. So 4 attacks at +16 for 40, 50 with Bandon, is nuking any baddy in the game--if the Opponent has any Emperor, then you can also add Overwhelming Power to the mix. Just keep some Sith Pawns on hand. Read Shifting Loyalties more closely, it is quite clear when he makes the save. Keep in mind it's not necessary for Twin Attacks. Brad had a very clear vision with Lord Scourge from the beginning of a "nuke piece". High risk, high reward. It took a lot of tinkering to get it (to what we hope is) balanced. The save happens immediately after each time you TARGET a higher point enemy. So if it's a normal attack, he has to make one save and gets up to 2 rerolls (MotF2) plus one for a Sith Pawn. If you attempt to use Lightsaber Bravado +20, you get 4 attacks (double + twin) and have to make 2 saves (one before each set of twin attacks) and can reroll once (MotF2) plus one for a Sith Pawn. Then if you want to cut through a monster character with defensive abilities, you stack on overwhelming force, but that's 2 saves, no rerolls (except 1 for a sith pawn) for 160 unavoidable damage. So the damage scales up as the risk does. He's a very interesting design. Really look forward to seeing how people use him. Wouldn't it just be 120 Damage, though? It says "Make 2 attacks at +6 Attack and +20 Damage." Why doesn't this work the same as Senator Shots, in which situation the normal attacks have +16/40 and the Twin Attacks have only +10/20?
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TheHutts wrote:How does the Seer increasing ranges by 2 interact with the Yammosk extending range 6 SAs? It doesn't. The Yammosk extends the range that an SA or CE be given. The seer extend the range of the SA itself. IE, the Yammosk allows Yomin Carr's allies to gain spit poison board wide. The seer allows allies with spit poison to hit an enemy 8 squares away
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SignerJ wrote:
Wouldn't it just be 120 Damage, though? It says "Make 2 attacks at +6 Attack and +20 Damage." Why doesn't this work the same as Senator Shots, in which situation the normal attacks have +16/40 and the Twin Attacks have only +10/20?
Well, it went thru the proper channels with the intent of 16o being clear. I think it has to do with the idea of Immediate and the fact that this Force Power's purpose was to combine Lightsaber Assault and Bravado 20--some of which was spacing issues. That's the best answer I have.
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I ran the stats on the probability of turning when Lord Scourge attacks a higher-cost figure:
Adding in the option to reroll with a Sith Pawn (except on a 1), these are the probabilities:
2fprrs available, 1 pawn, normal Twin attack. Probability of turning: _7.7_ %
1fprr available, 1 pawn, Overwhelming Force (Twin attack). Probability of turning: _15.6_ %
1fprr available, 1 pawn, Lightsaber Bravado (4 attacks total, targeting twice). Probability of turning: _30.5_ %
0fprr available, 1 pawn, OF/LSB (4 attacks, targeting twice, unavoidable dmg). Probability of turning: _61.3_ %
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FlyingArrow wrote:I ran the stats on the probability of turning when Lord Scourge attacks a higher-cost figure:
Adding in the option to reroll with a Sith Pawn (except on a 1), these are the probabilities:
2fprrs available, 1 pawn, normal Twin attack. Probability of turning: _7.7_ %
1fprr available, 1 pawn, Overwhelming Force (Twin attack). Probability of turning: _15.6_ %
1fprr available, 1 pawn, Lightsaber Bravado (4 attacks total, targeting twice). Probability of turning: _30.5_ %
0fprr available, 1 pawn, OF/LSB (4 attacks, targeting twice, unavoidable dmg). Probability of turning: _61.3_ % Ouch. I don't know about anybody else, but those statistics are just too risky for me to use Lord Scourge very often.
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SignerJ wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:I ran the stats on the probability of turning when Lord Scourge attacks a higher-cost figure:
Adding in the option to reroll with a Sith Pawn (except on a 1), these are the probabilities:
2fprrs available, 1 pawn, normal Twin attack. Probability of turning: _7.7_ %
1fprr available, 1 pawn, Overwhelming Force (Twin attack). Probability of turning: _15.6_ %
1fprr available, 1 pawn, Lightsaber Bravado (4 attacks total, targeting twice). Probability of turning: _30.5_ %
0fprr available, 1 pawn, OF/LSB (4 attacks, targeting twice, unavoidable dmg). Probability of turning: _61.3_ % Ouch. I don't know about anybody else, but those statistics are just too risky for me to use Lord Scourge very often. Except you likely burned their 63+ point piece, and if he turns, are about to burn through another 41 points. In a race to 200, that's game. In kill-em-all, that could still be pretty effective depending on build/timing.
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SignerJ wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:I ran the stats on the probability of turning when Lord Scourge attacks a higher-cost figure:
Adding in the option to reroll with a Sith Pawn (except on a 1), these are the probabilities:
2fprrs available, 1 pawn, normal Twin attack. Probability of turning: _7.7_ %
1fprr available, 1 pawn, Overwhelming Force (Twin attack). Probability of turning: _15.6_ %
1fprr available, 1 pawn, Lightsaber Bravado (4 attacks total, targeting twice). Probability of turning: _30.5_ %
0fprr available, 1 pawn, OF/LSB (4 attacks, targeting twice, unavoidable dmg). Probability of turning: _61.3_ % Ouch. I don't know about anybody else, but those statistics are just too risky for me to use Lord Scourge very often. I remember reading those stats, and I was satisfied. Pretty low chance of turning unless you are using LSB AND Overwhelmong Force. And that is against a big nasty and/or in a desperate situation. We wanted that tough choice. Keep in mind you can choose not to make the second attack. (Perhaps you burned your reroll and/or pawn on the first save)
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The thing that might prevent me from using him often is that low base attack - he's only at +14, even with Lightsaber Bravado, so he's going to miss quite often against the big pieces.
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TheHutts wrote:The thing that might prevent me from using him often is that low base attack - he's only at +14, even with Lightsaber Bravado, so he's going to miss quite often against the big pieces. +16, which has been said repeatedly.
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Oops, my bad, +16 is a lot more viable.
How's he gone in playtesting? Do you think of him as a potential Tier 1 piece, or do you think he's too risky/situational? 120 hp with dark armour is quite robust.
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TheHutts wrote:Oops, my bad, +16 is a lot more viable.
How's he gone in playtesting? Do you think of him as a potential Tier 1 piece, or do you think he's too risky/situational? 120 hp with dark armour is quite robust. I always envisioned him, because of the risk, as 1.5--find the right build, and pop. I felt the same way designing Malgus and look at him. In the hands of a smart player, setting up the 100 point swing by burn/feeding him to the other team is probably where it'll be.
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