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Next year, how about a SHNN live during the championship finals?
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komix wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:First blush - super disappointed with the new Luke.
It makes GMLS pretty much 100% redundant. I'm more an advocate of bringing WotC pieces back to life - not just replacing them like this. The only thing the new one doesn't have that GMLS does have is Triple Attack and a couple of points on stats. Add in the new tricks (Cunning and LS Throw), and it makes GMLS only useful in a squad where you are intentionally trying to lose - GMLS doesn't even make sense in a gimmick squad anymore because the new one is pretty much the same thing but better. Plus GMLS can now never be boosted except by exact name because he'll always be overshadowed by this new version.
Plus, the new one still doesn't look like he's competitive. I could be wrong about that, though.
Sorry to be so negative. I guess I was looking forward to a new NR Luke - a new flavor and a competitive cost. This one doesn't seem to fill the bill on either account. My thoughts exactly! This Luke is pretty much the same like the GMLS plus Cunning and LS , and even better CE. And it costs 15 points less! Which just means that old GMLS is redundant. I really like the new Palps thou!! One question: Sidious counts as Emperor Palpatine so can't we really use Hand of the Emperor?? I know that in glossary HoE stands that "character whose name contains Emperor Palpatine" but if we were to change/bend some rules wouldn't it be better to "character who counts as Emperor Palpatine" ? I guess I didn't realize quite how similar he and GMLS were. (I think I thought GMLS had more Force Powers...or just more going on in general, I guess better remembered than actually played.) It is a disappointing that they are very similar but I think this Luke is definitely more playable. The Cunning, and LS Throw alone are enough of a boost and his CE on top of that is amazing...But I definitely see what you are saying. I wanted a NR Master Luke update pretty badly. And I think I was hoping for one a little more in line with Luke Skywalker, Jedi Master in terms of cost...or one very focused on Force Powers like Meditation and mass Illusions. Though we should never rule out one in the future :) options are always a good thing. I don't know. I'm still excited for this Luke but maybe that is because I do like GMLS so much. I'm afraid you are right though and with this one I doubt anyone will use the original GMLS again. Still with what he adds and drops 15 points I think this one has more of a shot of being competitive...maybe? (Or I just dream big!) As I understand Hand of the Emperor their name must contain Emperor Palpatine. Personally I think it should be counts as...but that isn't up to me ;) I think they may be looking at it now because of the new Anakin Skywalker, Chosen One.
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Anakin, The Chosen One is a seperate situation. Sidious would need an errata to be a valid target for Hand of the Emperor.
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The new palpatine's great, and I think he'll be seeing some action, but I think that he should've had Affinity.
Also, GMLS will probably be getting played by only the people that don't play V-sets, which is kind of sad. This Luke is better in pretty much every way, and I think that he is going to be competitive, like Mace LOTLS.
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Sithborg wrote:Anakin, The Chosen One is a seperate situation. Sidious would need an errata to be a valid target for Hand of the Emperor. Sorry I phrased my sentence poorly. I meant the situations were similar and that this came up a bit with Anakin Choosen One/the ability was being looked at I'm that regard. I didn't mean to imply that it it might work with Sidious in the future.
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The new Luke sucks... he can't even beat Teddy Grahams. 
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Seriously, I had a lot of fun running both pieces. I don't think the meta issue is anything on the cards, it's that they cost so much. Whatever piece you are talking about, be it these 2 or GMLS, the 'all eggs in one basket' squad is really the issue. Lord Vader in my opinion is the one high costed figure that broke through to tier 1 for a time, and that's because you could give him some support, be it more activations or a second attacker. My Luke squad had 13 activations in it, but it was mostly tech with Dodonna, Ganner, Dash, and Jag. It's good, but I don't think it would last too long in the midst of tier 1 squads. I don't care... I like playing him and both of these guys will see table time with me.
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Darth_Jim wrote:The new Luke sucks... he can't even beat Teddy Grahams. Clearly he was not looked at in the delicious chocolaty-graham cracker Meta. Very dissapointed. Darth_Jim wrote:Seriously, I had a lot of fun running both pieces. I don't think the meta issue is anything on the cards, it's that they cost so much. Whatever piece you are talking about, be it these 2 or GMLS, the 'all eggs in one basket' squad is really the issue. Lord Vader in my opinion is the one high costed figure that broke through to tier 1 for a time, and that's because you could give him some support, be it more activations or a second attacker. My Luke squad had 13 activations in it, but it was mostly tech with Dodonna, Ganner, Dash, and Jag. It's good, but I don't think it would last too long in the midst of tier 1 squads. I don't care... I like playing him and both of these guys will see table time with me. I'm excited to try both. They are kind of both my style of piece, yeah I have all my eggs in one basket, bring it. And my first real squad was a GMLS so I have such a soft spot for him. Right now I'm just trying to think of really good bodyguards for Luke. I kind of like the idea of using Jacen until his stats become crazy. Then again with Jacen, you can bring in Vegere. Luke Skywalker, Master of Crab Armor.
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Without having tried them, I'm inclined to agree... simple love the new palps. He really is the powerhouse that defeated the republic, and i'm glad to see this representation.
Luke, as others have stated, seems to have replaced GMLS rather then function as an alternative. Perhaps with time (and more vsets), we will receive some sort of boost that will make GMLS playable, and more importantly, desirable to play over this new rendition. What that would be, I cannot say, unless there is a new piece that specifically targets GMLS and not MOTO.
That being said, I do find MOTO be be somewhat underwhelming. Not sure what it is... he seems like he is worth his cost, but I'm just not feeling the build. Thats just my opinion obviously, and I mean no offense to the designer... opinions are like bantha holes, everyone got one.
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 Darth_Jim wrote:The new Luke sucks... he can't even beat Teddy Grahams. only if the TG's are paired with chewie on at-st 
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komix wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:First blush - super disappointed with the new Luke.
It makes GMLS pretty much 100% redundant. I'm more an advocate of bringing WotC pieces back to life - not just replacing them like this. The only thing the new one doesn't have that GMLS does have is Triple Attack and a couple of points on stats. Add in the new tricks (Cunning and LS Throw), and it makes GMLS only useful in a squad where you are intentionally trying to lose - GMLS doesn't even make sense in a gimmick squad anymore because the new one is pretty much the same thing but better. Plus GMLS can now never be boosted except by exact name because he'll always be overshadowed by this new version.
Plus, the new one still doesn't look like he's competitive. I could be wrong about that, though.
Sorry to be so negative. I guess I was looking forward to a new NR Luke - a new flavor and a competitive cost. This one doesn't seem to fill the bill on either account. My thoughts exactly! This Luke is pretty much the same like the GMLS plus Cunning and LS , and even better CE. And it costs 15 points less! Which just means that old GMLS is redundant. I really like the new Palps thou!! One question: Sidious counts as Emperor Palpatine so can't we really use Hand of the Emperor?? I know that in glossary HoE stands that "character whose name contains Emperor Palpatine" but if we were to change/bend some rules wouldn't it be better to "character who counts as Emperor Palpatine" ? I'm going to third that "GMLS is redundant" comment. They both have the same total damage output, only this one can do it at range. This one has a higher attack with cunning. This one has more force points to start. He is a better team player (though not by much) thanks to his CE's. They are clones only this one is cheaper, better, faster. I like it but I do not like how it replaces an existing mini that was usable but now isn't. I am also not sure how I feel about luke being able to mop the floor with palps 100% of the time...in terms of both CE's and combat.
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How so? Sidous has Parry, which is going to slow Luke down. Also, his CE means Luke loses his damage boost. Honestly, GMLS is the Luke you want vs Palpatine. Triple Twin means more Attacks get through Parry, and since you aren't going to get Cunning, he's going to have more damage. I do agree that they are too similar, but I think there are enough subtle differences to make it not as bad.
Plus, Sidous is essentially 90 pts when you factor his Rapport in.
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Sithborg wrote:How so? Sidous has Parry, which is going to slow Luke down. Also, his CE means Luke loses his damage boost. Honestly, GMLS is the Luke you want vs Palpatine. Triple Twin means more Attacks get through Parry, and since you aren't going to get Cunning, he's going to have more damage. I do agree that they are too similar, but I think there are enough subtle differences to make it not as bad.
Plus, Sidous is essentially 90 pts when you factor his Rapport in. Yes, I will agree that the 15 point higher cost luke will stand a slightly better chance because he has two extra attacks, however, either one kills palps. At best, Palps can dish out 120 damage (rage+JH), however, that is out of 3 attacks in which luke can djemso and LS defense. Lukes counter djemso to palps attacks can do 120 damage to palps on top of his base 80 damage. So, we will say on a bad day, luke will get 6 attacks vs palps for 70-140 damage (miss 2 djemso saves and palps makes none to half his parry saves) Palps, in return, hits 2 of three (one defense save) for 80 damage. So, while palps has a 95% chance to hit (can roll a 1) he only gets three swipes to lukes ten (assuming he makes djemso saves) On a good day palps gets 7/10 parries but, like luke, palps is using all his force. Either way, luke has the advantage.
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I agree that new Luke is similar to GMLS - both of them are very strong against other melee Jedi. So of course both of them are going to deal to Sidious. Sidious does bring some other abilities to the table - he has all the positive attributes of Emperor Palpatine on Throne; Evade, Force Renewal 3, and allowing other characters to spend his force points, and has the rapport 10 for Vader as well. The Lukes are quite similar, but I like the update - the old one wasn't getting used but did have a pretty cool flavour, hopefully the cheaper cost and the ability to attack at range will help the new one out. Jedi_Master wrote:Lukes counter djemso to palps attacks can do 120 damage to palps on top of his base 80 damage. Do you know that the +10 bonus from Djem So Mastery only applies to the first attack of the twin - the second is only for 20 damage. So Luke's Djem So's can only do 100 damage, and that's if Sidious fails all his parries.
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TheHutts wrote:Do you know that the +10 bonus from Djem So Mastery only applies to the first attack of the twin - the second is only for 20 damage. So Luke's Djem So's can only do 100 damage, and that's if Sidious fails all his parries. Yeah, forgot about that, it is actually 150 damage though vs palps if he makes his djemso saves. (3 twins, 50 total damage per twin). That and luke has a 16 square reach with double twin (master speed and ls through 2) while palps has a 6 square reach with assault SR. Either way, luke is going to likely win the match up unless palps is lucky with his rolls or luke isn't lucky with his. Luke's damage output is drastically higher and his range is a lot bigger.
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