He's been irrelevant to competitive play for years. But, you're correct. When he was in his prime, people thought that there would never be a squad without him again.

I don't see bastilla turning into a BBH. She's just too useful, and the only way to make her fall to the side would be to release another option that does the same thing but better (which i highly doubt would ever happen). I think it's more likely that she will be like MAS or Doombot... forever an auto-include. However, as the meta grows, and counters change, i think she will continue to be less and less devastating, but always useful.

Yeah, i realize that this is beating a dead horse but this is really the first time I've openly discussed the design decisions.

I realize that it essentially comes down to opinion on whether you think it was a good thing or not but perhaps a bit more transparency might at least allow people to understand why that piece/ability was made. People like Dan won't be swayed as he thinks it was a poor choice. That's fine. I'm sure he disagrees with as many points of mine as i do with his. I'm not here to go back through his post and re-iterate that i disagree with the points he's re-stressed.

It wasn't just made just by me, it was the design team at the time, and i still stand by the process.

It wasn't just to kurb the rebels, they just got the brunt.
It wasn't just to bring up the OR but they were the most obvious recipients, and its helped.

It was a meta game decision and the overall effect IMO was that its allowed a great deal of parity across the factions. I truly believe that it, more than anything else, has done that. So many abilities have been added with good intentions and they fall by the way side. Crack shot and Black Ops exist but did nothing to bring the Mando's up.

I still don't believe it's crushed the rebels even though its a popular POV. Rebels now struggle against the OR but how many other factions struggle against other factions?
Against every other faction the rebels keep their bells and whistles but ABM killed them? I just don't understand the mentality. OR still lose to Empire, still get hosed by the Vong but its ABM that gets the tag NPE even though it doesn't stop you playing, it just takes away some synergy.


Anyway, i'm gonna put my club away now and let the horse cover over with flies. Whether you agree with me or not I just felt i needed to get this off my chest.

now that i can agree with.

I still feel that the design of Galen was the most frustrating experience i've had in SWM, I had high hopes and now he just feels like a wasted opportunity. My failing was trying to give 2 factions a useful tool whereas i probably should have focused on rebels but there were other issues in that process that just give me headaches still.

Well...

One of two things, a Fringe Ysillimiri (sp?) cage (which, by all accounts, would be bad for the game unless moderated by cost or Unique) or more use of Disciplined Leader, specifically for Rebs.

I could see on a Leia of some sort:
Vote of Confidence: At the start of the skirmish, choose one commander within the squad. That commander gains Disciplined Leader for the remainder of the skirmish.

We can send it to marketing and they can find a focus group. Once, that data is collected, we can then agree on a name. :)

It would have to be on a Unique.

Or it could be on the Mon Mothma, Rebel that has been clamored for. ;)

Well...

Not to say you're wrong, but I don't know that its quite as black and white as that. I wasn't around for this early stage, but I know Bane, who came in the previous set, was top tier because the game was still lingering in the 100pt build at the time. I'm not sure when the shift from 100 to 150/200 really came in full, but BH was probably still seeing a lot of 100 point play. A piece like boba would really shut down the beat stick aspect of the game at that point level. I'm pretty sure that is exactly why there was so much uproar from the community at the time of his release. People were upset because there was no point in bringing in a beat that filled 2/3 of your squads total points when boba could remove them in one attack. I think thats why the Windu/Sing combo went the way of the dinosaur.

I'm sure a more seasoned player could provide a bit more detail. But the point is, Bastilla shuts down one type of squad (CE dependent) in the same way boba shut down another (beat stick dependent). And... just like with boba, the game survived, is surviving, will survive... as long as It knows how to love, I know It'll stay alive.

There is the misconception though. She hasn't taken out entire factions. Were the true the top 3 factions on the other thread wouldnt be Republic/Imperial/Separatist and all ahead of OR. Especially Imps and Seps who do use CE's for significant roles in most builds.

I've only been playing just under two years, immediately after DotF dropped, so I don't have the experience of knowing exactly what things were like between '08-'10 or whatever it was when Rebels were so dominant. But from what I have heard it doesn't sound very interesting to just play Rebels or lose. Furthermore if you were to show up to Gencon back then with a squad that could beat anything except for 1 squad that simply demolished you and you were guaranteed to see it, would it still be wise to run it? Would it be smart to go back and tweak it if possible or use something else instead?

I understand the NPE angle on her, I really do. Nobody likes sitting down across from your opponent and realizing that your squad has just been entirely nerfed by what your opponent has. It happened to me a month ago when we did an Epic 300 point night and my Czulkang Lah squad came up against Mandos w/ a Parrying Vindicated a well place Training Sergeant and Boba. I killed a single Naught. That sucked and wasn't fun. But then I looked back and saw a mistake on my part. Maybe two. If I sit down again in that match I will do better because I learned from it.

In the end, I don't mind her and use OR on occasion because it can be fun to change things up and they have their own unique flavor. The more I use her the more I learn how to beat her. I also think she is good for the game to an extent because she keeps so much stuff in check. Chances are that squad you are grumpy about not being able to run for fear of ABM could be quite the NPE for your opponent anyway.

I still stand by the fact that Bastila gave the faction a unique flavor and direction, in addition to making them competitive.

Everyone that was around at the time (and many people chiming in here were NOT around at the time, so they don't have the full perspective) agrees that the OR desperately needed something HUGE. Words cannot describe how bad they were.

I truly am racking my brain on something so unique and strong that would have had no undesired effects. I'd love to hear a totally different design for Bastila that would have
A) Made OR competitive
B) Given the faction a unique flavor and feel
C) Not become a NPE

I will gladly play devils advocate to any ideas put out there.

And she has helped bring us closer to level in all the factions than ever in the games history. I don't even see how that can be argued. Is it perfect? No.

She is a pain to play. YES! Good. They need that. I still have personally rarely ever lost to her, but she does slow me down.

I will restate that I would rather have something that takes a bad faction (though we will never have anything as horrible as OR was pre v-set again) and makes them playable . . . Over a way-to-good figure in the already best faction. Why all the piling on? Mace was not just "needed-but-imperfect-execution". He was simply not needed. AT ALL! Republic needs to get fun theme pieces that are not broken for a while (Hi Boss Nass). They'll be just fine. No more Panakas of Theeds for a while. No more switching GOWK back into nuts-oid ridiculous. I think it's the job of v-set design to lift up the downtrodden, not to make the strong stronger.


People have to stop whining that they can't play whatever they want to play and win at the competitive level. You shouldn't be able to. Cream has to rise to the top, and the fact that you can make over twenty completely different top tier competitive squads with legit chances of winning at the highest levels is AMAZING! And a lot of that is OWED to Bastila. I honestly think the number would be LOWER without her.