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markedman247 wrote:swinefeld wrote:The question I have is, if it's a split CE do you get the entire thing or is it like the Yammosk where you can take Swap or Opportunist from Thrawn, but not both? With this ability, Swap is a baaaad idea. Hopefully, it is either/or. You don't want Marn being swapped by the enemy into their clutches. Remember, you are still under their commander's control. So, that Momentum with GenSky means you need to be within 6 of him to gain the ability. Great for Jareal, but lousy for Marn. See but someone already said the range 6 restriction is ignored. Could we get an official ruling on that part? And as far as the squad abilities are concerned yes you can bring 3 uggies but since Jarael, Marn and Zayne don't share the same name with them it doesn't look like that will work for the group, unless they ignore that restriction too......
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fingersandteeth wrote:Quote: Remember, you are still under their commander's control. So, that Momentum with GenSky means you need to be within 6 of him to gain the ability. Great for Jareal, but lousy for Marn. range is a restriction, so its ignored. Jareal and Marn would just get it. Yeah, just read that. My bad. But it does make that limitless range thing a double-edged sword if you aren't careful. Most are wiser than others at that nuance.
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Galactic Funk wrote:
And as far as the squad abilities are concerned yes you can bring 3 uggies but since Jarael, Marn and Zayne don't share the same name with them it doesn't look like that will work for the group, unless they ignore that restriction too......
You're correct. Con Artist wouldn't lift any restrictions of any abilities being given, just the restriction on the CE itself. So say you choose a CE that gives Order 66 characters Squad Assault; Marn and company would all get Squad Assault (ignoring the Order 66 restriction), but they would have to follow the restrictions of Squad Assault itself. Another good example is Tyber Zann's CE. You can choose that as the CE to be affected by with Con Artist, and Marn would gain Merciless +10, ignoring the Zann Consortium restriction. But Merciless +10 still only works on enemies at half hit points or less.
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But would they not also get the benefit of the earlier part of the CE (Allies count as having the same name as each other)? The "allies" part can't be the limiting factor, since then it basically wouldn't work for ANY CE.
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UrbanShmi wrote:But would they not also get the benefit of the earlier part of the CE (Allies count as having the same name as each other)? The "allies" part can't be the limiting factor, since then it basically wouldn't work for ANY CE. If I recall, the vast majority of the squad CE's don't include verbiage for allies counting as having the same name. A handful do but those are few and far between if memory serves. But then again, if that is a 2 part CE you might not be subject to both.
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To be honest, I'm not that familiar with the squad CEs, particularly the older ones. That said, my original reply was only intended to include CEs that specified counting as the same name, so I guess I should have specified that.
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OK. Aric Jorgans CE: Old Republic soldiers and troopers within 6 squares gain Squad Firepower. EmporerDragon wrote:It's pretty much all restrictions are lifted. A good way to look at it would be to tack on the phrase "and enemies with Con Artist" to the CE description, so if Yularen was chosen, his CE would read "Followers without the melee attack ability and enemies with Con Artist gain Opportunist" while the Mandalorian Captain would read "Mandalorian Followers and enemies with Con Artist within 6 squares gain Twin Attack". Now as I understand it it would read: Old Republic soldiers and troopers and enemies with Con Artist within 6 squares gain Squad Firepower. Is this accurate? And all they have to be is within 6 of each other? Wouldn't that work with any squad ability scince the defining factor would be "Con Artist"?
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Ooops, missed Echo24's post, which I think, agrees with my thought.
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How would Darth Revan's CE work - the extra movement? Assume Jarael chooses to be subject to Revan's once-per-round movement CE.
* Whoever wins initiative gets to use Revan's CE to move. If Jarael moves, Revan can't move anyone else. If Revan wins initiative (as normal), then Jarael can't move.
* Both sides get to move at the beginning of the round.
* The player controlling Revan chooses who to move, and if they choose Jarael they get to move Jarael themselves.
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FlyingArrow wrote:How would Darth Revan's CE work - the extra movement? Assume Jarael chooses to be subject to Revan's once-per-round movement CE.
* Whoever wins initiative gets to use Revan's CE to move. If Jarael moves, Revan can't move anyone else. If Revan wins initiative (as normal), then Jarael can't move.
* Both sides get to move at the beginning of the round.
* The player controlling Revan chooses who to move, and if they choose Jarael they get to move Jarael themselves. It depends on if Revan's owner wants to give the movement to the Con Artist. They are subject to the CE, but the opposing player still controls it.
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Sithborg wrote:FlyingArrow wrote:How would Darth Revan's CE work - the extra movement? Assume Jarael chooses to be subject to Revan's once-per-round movement CE.
* Whoever wins initiative gets to use Revan's CE to move. If Jarael moves, Revan can't move anyone else. If Revan wins initiative (as normal), then Jarael can't move.
* Both sides get to move at the beginning of the round.
* The player controlling Revan chooses who to move, and if they choose Jarael they get to move Jarael themselves. It depends on if Revan's owner wants to give the movement to the Con Artist. They are subject to the CE, but the opposing player still controls it. The rule of thumb sounds like: "If the opponent has a choice in the CE's outcome, then it would be a bad idea. If no choice in the outcome, then you should be ok."
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If Jarael chooses to gain Verpine Shatter Rifle via Con Artist, we now have a character with Melee Attack making an attack from a distance. All other abilities that let a melee attacker attack from a distance specify that the attack is considered a non-melee attack (I think). Is it safe to assume that this interaction would also be considered a non-melee attack? This might be covered in the glossary entry for Verpine Shatter Rifle, but I can't find the glossary entry for Verpine Shatter Rifle.
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FlyingArrow wrote:If Jarael chooses to gain Verpine Shatter Rifle via Con Artist, we now have a character with Melee Attack making an attack from a distance. All other abilities that let a melee attacker attack from a distance specify that the attack is considered a non-melee attack (I think). Is it safe to assume that this interaction would also be considered a non-melee attack? This might be covered in the glossary entry for Verpine Shatter Rifle, but I can't find the glossary entry for Verpine Shatter Rifle. Intriguing interaction. *drool*
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VSR plays with targeting rules but does not change the attack type, so the melee restriction would prevent her from using it. edit: from range
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"Black Sun characters in your squad with Stealth (including this character) and who have cover cannot be targeted by nonadjacent enemies. "
You could read this two ways:
Restrictions: "Black Sun characters in your squad with Stealth and who have cover"
CE: "cannot be targeted by nonadjacent enemies."
Restrictions: "Black Sun characters in your squad with Stealth"
CE: "and who have cover cannot be targeted by nonadjacent enemies."
The first version sounds right. Having cover appears to be a restriction to receiving the CE, as opposed to a condition embedded in the CE. This would effectively grant invisibility to a character with Con Artist, correct? (It doesn't make sense logically, but that's what the rules seem to say.)
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I believe it will be the second interpretation: Con Artist characters in your squad who have cover cannot be targeted by nonadjacent enemies. Please note this may not be final glossary wording: Quote:Con Artist:
During setup, after seeing your opponent's squad, you may choose one commander effect. This character is now subject to that commander effect regardless of restrictions on faction, range, special ability's, identifier or unique rules. This effect lasts until the chosen commander is defeated.
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swinefeld wrote:I believe it will be the second interpretation: Con Artist characters in your squad who have cover cannot be targeted by nonadjacent enemies. Please note this may not be final glossary wording: Quote:Con Artist:
During setup, after seeing your opponent's squad, you may choose one commander effect. This character is now subject to that commander effect regardless of restrictions on faction, range, special ability's, identifier or unique rules. This effect lasts until the chosen commander is defeated. Okay, so having cover isn't one of the restrictions that can be ignored. Also, Jarael can't gain MotF2 from Mara by impersonating Luke. Identifiers (trooper, pilot, etc) are ignored, but not "name contains". Correct?
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How would this interact with something like activation control? Would your opponent chose when your character activates?
Also, based on the skill description, without having access to the glossary definition, it sounds as if each con artist can chose a different commander effect (if available).
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Activation control CE's don't affect characters, they affect players.
Swinefield is fairly close to how the glossary will come out.
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Does it ignore the " at the start of the skirmish" restrictions too? for example, it seems like a con artist should have access to evade and parry through : At the start of the skirmish, choose 1 Mandalorian ally and either Evade or Parry. That ally gains the chosen ability while within 6 squares of this character.
likewise, could a non force sensitive character gain access to force points and force renewal?
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