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Well, I for one can tell you that playtesting and voicing concerns are never enough to get more involved in the design process.
I have been playtesting for roughly 2 years, and have seen some pieces go through that I feel have a negative impact on the game regardless of my concerns.Now this could be me not seeing eye to eye with the designers, I admit, but it does not change the fact that over 90% of thigns I point out and complain about are "Over the Top" pieces.
I have expressed multiple times (privately, I never get public unless people completely disregard what I say and then it happens,I.E. Mace) concern on some pieces not because I think they can never be beat, but given the diversity of the game now would just compoletely wreck a fun and inviting enviroment.
Take the new Malgus. I'm not complainging (anymore) about this piece and its FYD. But during its design, I expressed multiple times that FYD should never be range 12 no targeting rules, and can be used twice on 1 turn with 2 people. Its not that he can never be ebat, just who wants to play a game, where on a failed save 16 ( or 20 on a well placed FS)you lose your turn and must come to one of the biggest beats in the game? Yes its flavorful, he does it in a game and all that. But designing pieces shouldn't always be about giving the character what they have, it should be making a character that fits the game, and continues with keeping the game fun.
I did side rant a little there, not my intention, but it is old news hearing that play testing gets you anywhere with the design team. Its strictly how much they like you, and if they want you to be involved with anything (other than play testing) which is fine, but please just stop saying that play testing leads to new things. Its just annoying now.
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shmi15 wrote:Well, I for one can tell you that playtesting and voicing concerns are never enough to get more involved in the design process.
I have been playtesting for roughly 2 years, and have seen some pieces go through that I feel have a negative impact on the game regardless of my concerns.Now this could be me not seeing eye to eye with the designers, I admit, but it does not change the fact that over 90% of thigns I point out and complain about are "Over the Top" pieces.
I have expressed multiple times (privately, I never get public unless people completely disregard what I say and then it happens,I.E. Mace) concern on some pieces not because I think they can never be beat, but given the diversity of the game now would just compoletely wreck a fun and inviting enviroment.
Take the new Malgus. I'm not complainging (anymore) about this piece and its FYD. But during its design, I expressed multiple times that FYD should never be range 12 no targeting rules, and can be used twice on 1 turn with 2 people. Its not that he can never be ebat, just who wants to play a game, where on a failed save 16 ( or 20 on a well placed FS)you lose your turn and must come to one of the biggest beats in the game? Yes its flavorful, he does it in a game and all that. But designing pieces shouldn't always be about giving the character what they have, it should be making a character that fits the game, and continues with keeping the game fun.
I did side rant a little there, not my intention, but it is old news hearing that play testing gets you anywhere with the design team. Its strictly how much they like you, and if they want you to be involved with anything (other than play testing) which is fine, but please just stop saying that play testing leads to new things. Its just annoying now. This is just simply not true. I looked through both my pm's and the PT thread for this piece. The only person to comment regularly about FYD was ultrastar and many of his suggestions helped shape FYD to what it is now.
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Do note that shmi15 is not actually a "playtester", he is a member of ultrastar's group, and ultrastar is a member of the PT Committee, so any comments that shmi15 had would have to go through ultrastar. If ultrastar didn't pass comments along, that's not up to the design team. Like TCW said, the comments from ultrastar definitely shaped how Malgus currently is. In fact, here's a direct quote from the playtesting thread. "ultrastar" wrote:As far as Face Your Destiny goes, the only way this ability could possibly work is a range of 12, no targeting rules. And have it worded to where they must base Malgus if possible. The save 16 was actually his idea also. So ultrastar, one of the PTCommittee members, was one of the key players in Malgus turning out as he is.
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and I stand by my suggestions. Working with the design and the goal Brad had laid out for Malgus, that was the only way that ability would work. Granted when I was making my suggestions this was a special ability and could only be used once. Now he can get MoTF 3 from Vergere and throw it on 3 people, or 2 people by himself. Which I don't think is a bad thing. I mean at 72 points, that's the bulk of your squad. If a piece costs that much he better be freaking good.
*Quick edit
Also I'm not a designer, I've expressed many times my dislike of bit 70 point pieces in the Sith Faction. They have enough of that. My job wasn't to design the piece, just to playtest and make suggestions based on how the designer wanted him to work. I feel I did that, and I really enjoy the piece Brad designed. Malgus is a 70 point piece that I actually like in the Sith.
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theultrastar wrote:and I stand by my suggestions. Working with the design and the goal Brad had laid out for Malgus, that was the only way that ability would work. Granted when I was making my suggestions this was a special ability and could only be used once. Now he can get MoTF 3 from Vergere and throw it on 3 people, or 2 people by himself. Which I don't think is a bad thing. I mean at 72 points, that's the bulk of your squad. If a piece costs that much he better be freaking good.
*Quick edit
Also I'm not a designer, I've expressed many times my dislike of bit 70 point pieces in the Sith Faction. They have enough of that. My job wasn't to design the piece, just to playtest and make suggestions based on how the designer wanted him to work. I feel I did that, and I really enjoy the piece Brad designed. Malgus is a 70 point piece that I actually like in the Sith.
And you did your job perfectly.  I hope it didn't look like I was criticizing you!
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[/quote] And you did your job perfectly. I hope it didn't look like I was criticizing you![/quote] ok one last thing because this is just pathetic.... He did his job perfectly but you kick him off the playtest committee because I called you dumb IN A PRIVATE MESAGE! nothing to do with him yet he is the one punished... great job.....
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And you did your job perfectly. I hope it didn't look like I was criticizing you![/quote] ok one last thing because this is just pathetic.... He did his job perfectly but you kick him off the playtest committee because I called you dumb IN A PRIVATE MESAGE! nothing to do with him yet he is the one punished... great job.....[/quote] This is news to me, especially since I have seen him POST in the PTCOM V-set 6 threads!!!! So really, what's pathetic....
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To put this back on track, pieces are designed by fans. And while it would be cool to the average player to be on the design team, it needs to remain as gamers who play competitively at a high level.
The system we have now works. I'm all for letting fresh, new talent in to work on sets.
If you are reading this and you want to get on the design team. Playtest. Get on as a Playtester, work your way up to the Committee, go to Regionals, compete. And you will get on the design team.
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theultrastar wrote:
If you are reading this and you want to get on the design team. Playtest. Get on as a Playtester, work your way up to the Committee, go to Regionals, compete. And you will get on the design team.
I'll hold you to that. 
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@corranhorn, That's the way to do it.
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Echo24 wrote:Galactic Funk wrote:I do like the suggestion made by knappskirata. That process seems better than the previous community project that is/was taking place. Of course you know there would be people upset about that too, lol. There always are. Haha, I think it was Boris who used to say that if WotC put a $20 bill inside of every $15 booster, people would complain about how it was folded. It's true, you'll never make everyone happy. Geez, strawmen much? I just don't like Andrew Jackson! 
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Echo24 wrote:Do note that shmi15 is not actually a "playtester", he is a member of ultrastar's group, and ultrastar is a member of the PT Committee, so any comments that shmi15 had would have to go through ultrastar. If ultrastar didn't pass comments along, that's not up to the design team. Like TCW said, the comments from ultrastar definitely shaped how Malgus currently is. In fact, here's a direct quote from the playtesting thread. "ultrastar" wrote:As far as Face Your Destiny goes, the only way this ability could possibly work is a range of 12, no targeting rules. And have it worded to where they must base Malgus if possible. The save 16 was actually his idea also. So ultrastar, one of the PTCommittee members, was one of the key players in Malgus turning out as he is. I am not part of the PT Committe, or the PT group that gets sent pieces at random. Since Ultrastar is/was on the PT Committe, I assumed whenever he wanted to test something out or had a question about a piece, I would be asked for my opinion. With Malgus, we didn't see eye to eye with him at all, He liked Malgus the way it was with FYD and all that, but I didn't like it at all. So no one outside of our group heard my concerns. Maybe thats my fault for not being involved in the other portion of play testing... But from what I learned in my experience in play testing that way.... None of my suggestions were welcomed, I was actually told that my job was to test and report, not to make suggestions ( that is why I made such a huge fuss over Mace, because that is the response I received when suggesting things for him) Now obviously not all designers are like that, and I don't put anyone else in the category with those 3 that have been just A holes to me when I bring up concerns. Now maybe I come about it in a very rude way, its just my nature, I'm a very eccentric person with a loud opinion.
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I do have something legitimate to add. Just a suggestion, but maybe when a designer takes inspiration from a custom made here (or anywhere else, for that matter), you could put in a little addendum somewhere (maybe even a comment here on Bloo Milk) saying whose piece inspired it. I'm not saying this to berate you for not giving credit in the past, I don't think being inspired by something means you're in any way copying it. But it could help show the extent to which regular ol' players influence the design process.
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The Celestial Warrior wrote:And you did your job perfectly. I hope it didn't look like I was criticizing you! ok one last thing because this is just pathetic.... He did his job perfectly but you kick him off the playtest committee because I called you dumb IN A PRIVATE MESAGE! nothing to do with him yet he is the one punished... great job.....[/quote] This is news to me, especially since I have seen him POST in the PTCOM V-set 6 threads!!!! So really, what's pathetic.... [/quote] he was kicked off last night, Daniel said it was a committee decision but i guess committee means just Daniel.
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Deaths_Baine wrote:The Celestial Warrior wrote:And you did your job perfectly. I hope it didn't look like I was criticizing you! ok one last thing because this is just pathetic.... He did his job perfectly but you kick him off the playtest committee because I called you dumb IN A PRIVATE MESAGE! nothing to do with him yet he is the one punished... great job..... This is news to me, especially since I have seen him POST in the PTCOM V-set 6 threads!!!! So really, what's pathetic.... [/quote] he was kicked off last night, Daniel said it was a committee decision but i guess committee means just Daniel.[/quote] It was actually me if that makes you feel any better. You get your information through Bronson and restricting his access also restricts yours. It's only temporary anyway, not that it's any of your business.
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Deaths_Baine wrote:
he was kicked off last night, Daniel said it was a committee decision but i guess committee means just Daniel.
Just for the record, this is an outright lie. No one has ever been kicked off the Playtesting committee. Ultrastar had his access temporarily suspended when it became clear that his account's password had been shared with a few people, and then problems were created from that. Barring some extreme change, he should be getting his access back tonight, but all the designers and the Playtesting committee lead needed to discuss the situation first.
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Well thanks for explaining all this to me guys. I had no idea this much work was involved. i still do like the design a specific unique competition, and i am willing to lead this project if that would make it possible, or someone else can lead it. I dont care, but my suggestion for the piece would be Pong Krell(unless he is already in Vset6)
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Echo24 wrote:Deaths_Baine wrote:
he was kicked off last night, Daniel said it was a committee decision but i guess committee means just Daniel.
Just for the record, this is an outright lie. No one has ever been kicked off the Playtesting committee. Ultrastar had his access temporarily suspended when it became clear that his account's password had been shared with a few people, and then problems were created from that. Barring some extreme change, he should be getting his access back tonight, but all the designers and the Playtesting committee lead needed to discuss the situation first. by problems you mean I called the designers dumb in a private message, nothing was spoiled, I did not leak anything at all, and never have. you are just mad that I do not see eye to eye with you all and that I openly criticize some of what you all are doing to the game. no lie here at all you kicked him out of the set 6 forums, regardless for how long it happened, and he did nothing. Why don't you enlighten me as to what else occurred other then what I just stated, did I leak anything? did I spoil anything? NOPE. I have every piece on set 6 saved in a file right now and could spoil them, but have I? even with everything that has gone on over this and privately, I have not betrayed the trust Bronson put in me with his password. and yet you still punish him.
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Weeks wrote:Deaths_Baine wrote:The Celestial Warrior wrote:And you did your job perfectly. I hope it didn't look like I was criticizing you! ok one last thing because this is just pathetic.... He did his job perfectly but you kick him off the playtest committee because I called you dumb IN A PRIVATE MESAGE! nothing to do with him yet he is the one punished... great job..... This is news to me, especially since I have seen him POST in the PTCOM V-set 6 threads!!!! So really, what's pathetic.... he was kicked off last night, Daniel said it was a committee decision but i guess committee means just Daniel.[/quote] It was actually me if that makes you feel any better. You get your information through Bronson and restricting his access also restricts yours. It's only temporary anyway, not that it's any of your business.[/quote] why did anyone need restricted is my question? because I privately called someone dumb?
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Sounds to me like bringing up DeathsBaine in this whole issue was my fault. I'm just going to stay out of whatever is going on with Deathsbaine/designers and stick with the unique competition idea.
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