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*throws up a little*
This is just nasty. I thought it was going to be "Listen to the Fans" and "Incorporate EU time line" not "F**k everything that has been made since '83. its a little sad. I don't know if its because im a 1995 baby, and really I grew up with everything all at once, but I love it all. Its ALL star wars. Clone wars is FANTASTIC. Im not even going to say for a cartoon. Its just down right awesome with story, character development and action. This is some old cranky guy who wants to change the past by altering the future. Please DONT sign this.
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Dang, wish I could take back my virtual signature now. I only signed for the nifty animation....
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Darth O wrote:Dang, wish I could take back my virtual signature now. I only signed for the nifty animation.... Lol, I almost did too.
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corranhorn wrote:No offense, but do you actually watch Star Trek? I'm not going to waste my time going into a line by line debate on this, but yes, I have watched plenty of Star Trek, both the original (with James T Kirk) and the newer one with Picard. You've said yourself that ST's "popular image" is clean and neat...and that's all I was pointing to. But I'm more than a little surprised that so many people are upset about a video that urges the new director to remember what made SW great from the start. It's not that there was nothing good in the PT (I've already mentioned some of the things I liked)...it's just that there's (IMHO) so much MORE that was good in the OT, and some of that was lost in the PT. It wasn't just bad acting and directing in the PT...there was something missing. The magic was gone. As for not being able to articulate exactly what the "other-ness" is that makes Star Wars great...there are dozens of things in life like that. Love, for example. Anyone who claims to be able to define and summarize it fully is either ignorant or joking. I'm saying there's something similar with what makes Star Wars great. The OT had piles of it...the PT had some of it.
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thereisnotry wrote:corranhorn wrote:No offense, but do you actually watch Star Trek? I'm not going to waste my time going into a line by line debate on this, but yes, I have watched plenty of Star Trek, both the original (with James T Kirk) and the newer one with Picard. You've said yourself that ST's "popular image" is clean and neat...and that's all I was pointing to. Ah, fair enough. Quote:
But I'm more than a little surprised that so many people are upset about a video that urges the new director to remember what made SW great from the start. It's not that there was nothing good in the PT (I've already mentioned some of the things I liked)...it's just that there's (IMHO) so much MORE that was good in the OT, and some of that was lost in the PT. It wasn't just bad acting and directing in the PT...there was something missing. The magic was gone.
And this magic was tied to the self deception that 3PO and R2 are not there to be cute? Quote:
As for not being able to articulate exactly what the "other-ness" is that makes Star Wars great...there are dozens of things in life like that. Love, for example. Anyone who claims to be able to define and summarize it fully is either ignorant or joking. I'm saying there's something similar with what makes Star Wars great. The OT had piles of it...the PT had some of it.
But that still dosen't tell me why you are able to point to these things in this video and tell me that they are ultra-mega-supey-important.
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I mostly disagree with the video, but it has some good points.
1. The setting is frontier.
The setting is the Star Wars universe, and the best part of the SW universe is... all of it. What's great is how incredibly VAST it is. How incredibly different Coruscant is from Tatooine from Dagobah from Naboo from Kamino. And we haven't even seen Nar Shaddaa or the lower levels of Coruscant or Korriban, etc. It's all Star Wars. Smugglers and bounty hunters are great, but they make the most sense in a universe as vast as Star Wars and we should see the whole thing.
2. The future is old
This really isn't different from point #1. Technology starts out new. Rich parts of the galaxy have the new technology. Poor parts have the old technology that isn't working so great anymore. I could go for a stronger focus on the frontier and broken technology, but it doesn't really matter all that much if the writing and acting are solid.
3. The force is mysterious
Totally agree with this. Midichlorians were stupid from the outset. They could be eliminated with just one sentence:
"Earlier Jedi research had indicated a strong correlation between force sensitivity and Midichlorian count, but recent studies indicate a weak relationship at best." But better yet... Luke doesn't know about the research anyway so let's just assume that "knowledge" is lost... and hope we never find it again.
4. Star Wars isn't cute
Comedy relief has always been in Star Wars. R2-D2, C-3PO, and the sarcasm of Han and Leia. I was 8 when Return of the Jedi came out and I loved the Ewoks. I never grew out of it. Sue me. Primitive teddy bears defeat the galaxy best troops? All it takes is overwhelming numbers, home turf, unexpected attack, some technology from the Rebels, and willing suspension of disbelief. No problem at all. I never even bought into Jar Jar hate, though they certainly could have done better with him.
The rough-and-tumble examples given in the video about a harsh SW universe go right back to point 1 about the frontier, which is fine. I like the frontier. But that has nothing to do with the comedy relief in Star Wars, cute or otherwise.
But most definitely, Greedo didn't shoot.
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FlyingArrow wrote:I mostly disagree with the video, but it has some good points.
3. The force is mysterious
Totally agree with this. Midichlorians were stupid from the outset. They could be eliminated with just one sentence:
"Earlier Jedi research had indicated a strong correlation between force sensitivity and Midichlorian count, but recent studies indicate a weak relationship at best." But better yet... Luke doesn't know about the research anyway so let's just assume that "knowledge" is lost... and hope we never find it again.
I agree with this one point.
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Why don't we back down on attacking each other. Discuss the video, not each other.
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Or at least pay attention. I just said I liked ewoks and didn't hate Jar Jar. I can't believe no one's attacking me yet.
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i like pie you guys.
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Here's my main thing. I look at the talent involved. And Academy Award winning writer, who wrote the amazing Toy Story 3, which was a movie for all ages. JJ Abrams, who has made some very fun movies, not to mention has shown the ability to mimic movies of a previous eras. Tell me you don't see Super 8 belonging alongside ET or Goonies. And then Kathleen Kennedy running it all. Look at her production credits. She knows how to make a classic movie.
And the most important thing, I am excited for something new. I have come to terms of the movies ignoring my favorite EU stories, and I say good riddance. Give me Luke's daughter, give me non Twin Solo children. Something I don't know will happen, and that is exciting. I don't fully understand how many get so twisted in having things be adaptations (see pretty much any comic book movie). Why rehash stories you have already read. And if that means going outside the holy "frontier", then fine. I loved the variety of Naboo. The fun colors of Coruscant.
As for the differences between Star Wars and Star Trek, it isn't really that hard. Star Trek is truly science fiction, its about the future. Is it the hardest of sci-fi, not, but you can't deny that at it's best, it had plenty of relevance to the modern day world. Star Wars isn't. Science Fantasy is thrown out a lot, but it is true. It has a ton of fantasy elements to it. It is in another universe entirely. I love it, but it is purely about the adventure. As much as I enjoy the Star Trek movies, a lot of it due to the characters (good sign), it isn't the best Star Trek can be. It fits the small screen so much better.
In the end, I don't hate the prequels. I can understand why a lot don't like them. But I can't understand how they would generate so much hatred that people like those who started this "list". Trying to recapture the nostalgia of the OT, and trying to force their opinions on far more creative individuals.
And the thing that gets me is the last point. These are family movies. They should be PG, and some things appealing to kids. Just because 2 generations of people have outgrown some of the cute, fun elements, doesn't mean the movies should become grim/dark. And really, let's not isolate Ewoks/Jar Jar. Don't forget Jawas, the Droids, and Chewbacca.
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A reason why I didn't hate the prequels the way many seemed to... I wasn't looking for the adventure/story that the OT provided. I was looking for background. Almost like a documentary about the history behind the adventure that we already knew. And that it delivered. Other than the truly painful romance scenes in EpII, that's pretty much what we got. We all knew where the story was headed, so the sense of adventure/unknown was pretty much lost from the get-go anyway. I'm reading Darth Plagueis right now - the prequel to the prequels and it's the same thing. No matter what happens, I know where the story is going. With that, the sense of adventure/unknown can't match the OT (or Fate of the Jedi, which I read most recently). But I still like it because it's Star Wars.
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FlyingArrow wrote:A reason why I didn't hate the prequels the way many seemed to... I wasn't looking for the adventure/story that the OT provided. I was looking for background. Almost like a documentary about the history behind the adventure that we already knew. And that it delivered. Other than the truly painful romance scenes in EpII, that's pretty much what we got. We all knew where the story was headed, so the sense of adventure/unknown was pretty much lost from the get-go anyway. I'm reading Darth Plagueis right now - the prequel to the prequels and it's the same thing. No matter what happens, I know where the story is going. With that, the sense of adventure/unknown can't match the OT (or Fate of the Jedi, which I read most recently). But I still like it because it's Star Wars. A big +1
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Darthbane53 wrote:*throws up a little*
This is just nasty. I thought it was going to be "Listen to the Fans" and "Incorporate EU time line" not "F**k everything that has been made since '83. its a little sad. I don't know if its because im a 1995 baby, and really I grew up with everything all at once, but I love it all. Its ALL star wars. Clone wars is FANTASTIC. Im not even going to say for a cartoon. Its just down right awesome with story, character development and action. This is some old cranky guy who wants to change the past by altering the future. Please DONT sign this. Ugggggggggh finally watched the video and I have to say +9000000000000000000. Please for the LOVE OF STAR WARS NOBODY ELSE SIGN THIS F*****G GARBAGE. Please
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Sithborg wrote:Here's my main thing. I look at the talent involved. And Academy Award winning writer, who wrote the amazing Toy Story 3, which was a movie for all ages. JJ Abrams, who has made some very fun movies, not to mention has shown the ability to mimic movies of a previous eras. Tell me you don't see Super 8 belonging alongside ET or Goonies. And then Kathleen Kennedy running it all. Look at her production credits. She knows how to make a classic movie. Not to mention Michael Kaplan on costumes (who did costumes for Blade Runner) and Lawrence Kasdan (screenwriter for Empire) consulting. We really shouldn't need to worry about this. Sithborg wrote:And the most important thing, I am excited for something new. I have come to terms of the movies ignoring my favorite EU stories, and I say good riddance. Give me Luke's daughter, give me non Twin Solo children. Something I don't know will happen, and that is exciting. I don't fully understand how many get so twisted in having things be adaptations (see pretty much any comic book movie). Why rehash stories you have already read. And if that means going outside the holy "frontier", then fine. I loved the variety of Naboo. The fun colors of Coruscant.
In the end, I don't hate the prequels. I can understand why a lot don't like them. But I can't understand how they would generate so much hatred that people like those who started this "list". Trying to recapture the nostalgia of the OT, and trying to force their opinions on far more creative individuals. +1 to all this. More hope and less cynicism would be good for all of us. In the end, it wasn't the setting of the prequels I found annoying, but the more technical details (writing, acting, etc.) Trying to claim the flavour of the prequels is somehow 'not Star Wars' completely ignores the different settings of each trilogy. The OT is 'frontier' because it follows Rebels pushed to the boundaries by the Empire. The prequels follow Anakin who, as a Jedi and then the right hand of the new order, belongs in the galactic centre, regardless of where he came from. The trilogies tell stories from different sides and thus need different settings. Calling one setting 'right' and the other 'wrong' just bugs me.
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Frankly, I would put point 5 in:
Less green screen/CGI, more practical. Honestly, actors feed on the surroundings. If the only surroundings are cameras, screens and a sterile environment, you get a bland, sterile performance. Need I mention the "fruit" from ep 2 that magically vanishes from Natalie Portman's "fork" when she eats it? It (bleeping) fruit. You CG'd fruit!
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FlyingArrow wrote:
3. The force is mysterious
Totally agree with this. Midichlorians were stupid from the outset. They could be eliminated with just one sentence:
"Earlier Jedi research had indicated a strong correlation between force sensitivity and Midichlorian count, but recent studies indicate a weak relationship at best." But better yet... Luke doesn't know about the research anyway so let's just assume that "knowledge" is lost... and hope we never find it again.
In relation to this I can only go off of what I have heard, but I believe it was at star wars Celebration 6 in orlando florida where there was a seth green conference/meeting/panel and they discussed this topic. Seth, who is the producer of robot chicken and the canceled 'Star Wars Detours' show, as well as a re-occuring voice actor for clone wars has had much one on one time with George him self, and loosely quoting him his conversation went like this *Seth* so I was at lucas ranch in the room with George going over some ideas and I finally asked him really George? Midiclorians? What is that all about? I mean come on. Tiny bacteria in your blood? At which point he pulled out a book and took a half hour explaining it and describing the process and the entire anthology of the idea and at the end of the meaning I was a believer. So even though the info George supposedly gave seth is not available to the public if it was enough to turn Seth Green, one of the largest Geek stars I know in to a believe it has got to be good, and maybe some day we will get the whole story. Just my POV
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The Original Trilogy and the Prequels both had a distinct feel to them; I wouldn't be surprised if the new movies have a slightly different feel as well. If The prequels (as different as they are from the originals) can be accepted as Star Wars, then so will the new movies. I do have my personal misgivings about "dirty scenes" that might get inserted into the new movies, a la the 2009 Star Trek movie.  corranhorn wrote:Robobob wrote: Just give me an awesome space battle, for crying out loud. No decent space battle in the prequels. The opening to RotS had potential, but had Ani and Obi fighting off buzz droids instead. Nothing beats the Battle of Endor. Agreed. I thought the RotS space battle was cool but it focused on Ani and Obi trying to get somewhere. There was really nothing riding on the battle as a whole. Thirded! The Battle of Coruscant could have been so cool, but the movie didn't even tell you what HAPPENED other than what Anakin and Obi-Wan were directly involved in. On the other hand, every major event in the Battle of Endor was crucial to the plot. They even repeatedly had short moments focusing on as-of-yet unnamed pilots. thereisnotry wrote:-I remember my emotional reaction (deep sadness and horror) in the movie theater to watching the Order 66 command be carried out in Ep3. That whole section was both evocative and memorable.
I was 12 years old when Revenge of the Sith came out. For the past 6 years, I had learned/read/watched about all the minor Jedi, and could name practically everyone shown in the Geonosis Arena. I can't tell you how emotionally shocked I was, seeing people as close as "friends" as fictitious folk can get, being murdered before my young eyes.  . Also Anakin's "death" on Mustafar and Padme's funeral did make me cry. Whatever criticisms the prequels may have, those left a very strong impression on me, if for no other reason than they were a long time coming.
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LeftiesWillRule wrote:The Original Trilogy and the Prequels both had a distinct feel to them; I wouldn't be surprised if the new movies have a slightly different feel as well. If The prequels (as different as they are from the originals) can be accepted as Star Wars, then so will the new movies. I do have my personal misgivings about "dirty scenes" that might get inserted into the new movies, a la the 2009 Star Trek movie. corranhorn wrote:Robobob wrote: Just give me an awesome space battle, for crying out loud. No decent space battle in the prequels. The opening to RotS had potential, but had Ani and Obi fighting off buzz droids instead. Nothing beats the Battle of Endor. Agreed. I thought the RotS space battle was cool but it focused on Ani and Obi trying to get somewhere. There was really nothing riding on the battle as a whole. Thirded! The Battle of Coruscant could have been so cool, but the movie didn't even tell you what HAPPENED other than what Anakin and Obi-Wan were directly involved in. On the other hand, every major event in the Battle of Endor was crucial to the plot. They even repeatedly had short moments focusing on as-of-yet unnamed pilots. thereisnotry wrote:-I remember my emotional reaction (deep sadness and horror) in the movie theater to watching the Order 66 command be carried out in Ep3. That whole section was both evocative and memorable.
I was 12 years old when Revenge of the Sith came out. For the past 6 years, I had learned/read/watched about all the minor Jedi, and could name practically everyone shown in the Geonosis Arena. I can't tell you how emotionally shocked I was, seeing people as close as "friends" as fictitious folk can get, being murdered before my young eyes. . Also Anakin's "death" on Mustafar and Padme's funeral did make me cry. Whatever criticisms the prequels may have, those left a very strong impression on me, if for no other reason than they were a long time coming. I completely agree with you and had similar thoughts/feelings  These next SW Movies WILL be different now wether they will be good, bad or alittle of both remains to be seen.
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I went back and watched the video again...and I am still glad I signed. Yeah, there is prequel and remake hate in there, and maybe he could have made his points without them, but I still agree with what he's saying. I actually drove to the first Star Wars movie in 1977, and while I prefer the OT, I embrace all that is Star Wars, even the much maligned cartoon. In fact, one of my all-time favorite scenes is in Episode 2, when a conflicted Anakin confesses to Padme what he'd done to the tuskens. My oldest son was the same age when this movie came out, and the similarities between him and Anakin regarding emotions were striking. Laugh if you want, but I thought Hayden nailed this scene. Of course, the Geonosis battle scene later on was ruined by the antics of C3PO, so Episode 2 wasn't as good as it could have been. (And if you've heard SHNN, you know I like a good pun, but that stuff was utter stupidity.)
So yeah, I want to see the setting in the frontier, not the city...I want to see a gritty and tired world, not a bright and sanitized one. (Although to make his point, the author should have used JJ Abrams' Star Trek references, not Padme's ship...a senators ship SHOULD look like that.) Don't explain the Force, and make me believe that lead characters ARE in danger, not just on some camping trip.
JJ Abrams is up to the task. I loved the '09 Star Trek even though it messed with the timeline. (Well, erased it actually lol.) I think he's capable of bringing back that OT feel again.
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