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Want to be a vset 10 designer? Options
urbanjedi
Posted: Friday, August 22, 2014 6:05:55 PM
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Set 10 is actually

Tim
Laura
Deri
Les

Weeks gets to design 1 piece for winning the champs.

atmsalad
Posted: Friday, August 22, 2014 6:18:28 PM
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Keep it under your hat though... This is top secret stuff...
jak
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2014 7:10:09 AM
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IMO I'd like to see more new blood in the design team.
seems like a re-shuffle of the same set of people(and their wife)
TimmerB123
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2014 7:26:19 AM
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jak wrote:
IMO I'd like to see more new blood in the design team.
seems like a re-shuffle of the same set of people(and their wife)


We went trough an extensive process to select a new designer for vset. 10. Laura had an impressive application and got picked through a multi-tiered voting process. I think she's a great addition to the team. If anything the fact that Laura is the wife of a designer may have hurt her a little in the process. I think a few designers voted "against" her for that reason alone. Her merits on her own were enough to overcome that though.

The plan is to continue doing that for each set, so we will have a healthy mix of veteran designers, and new blood. Our process was more open and public than ever before, and personally I think that is the right direction. We don't want to be a secret society, we want to have the strongest team. It's not accidental that of the individuals who submitted applications, the ones who already roll their sleeves up and do a lot of work in the community got the strongest consideration. They have proven their work ethic and dedication. It was still a very hard selection process, but we not only chose a new designer, but we also recruited several people among the applicants for other positions too.

Advice to anyone who is even remotely thinking about designing - get involved. Play-test, add thought-out and rational posts to forum discussions, make impressive squads, ask how you can help, etc.
leshippy
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2014 7:40:46 AM
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jak wrote:
IMO I'd like to see more new blood in the design team.
seems like a re-shuffle of the same set of people(and their wife)


So I think many of the set designers we me cash or at least drinks the next time we meet. Told you so.

Jak. Send me your address and I will send you a twenty. When you find it in the mail folded incorrectly send it back.
leshippy
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2014 7:57:40 AM
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Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 489
jak wrote:
IMO I'd like to see more new blood in the design team.
seems like a re-shuffle of the same set of people(and their wife)


Another designer can correct me if I am wrong, but I think we started adding new people to the design team since set 4 or maybe 2. I am not sure.

With an application open to the entire world, we received 10 applications plus one that was turned in after the deadline. From those the designer were able to vote on their top 5 applicants. The top 5 receiving votes were asked to submit three characters that had to meet requirements set by the designers. Unique force user with no new abilites, I think was one. Then the past designers ranked everyone again. Laura had the most votes.

One point that I would like to make is that in the application process we had this question "If you aren't chosen to be a designer, what other role would you be interested in taking in the process, if any?" For each applicant we added them to the process where they requested as best we could.

I am sure later this year we will do this process again to look for a new designer for set 11.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2014 8:05:12 AM
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Joined: 5/31/2010
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yeah.... my only problem with this whole thing is.... Some of the designers have literally done nothing for the past year and are still designing over people that have contributed for a long time. Bill, while I think he is a good designer has not played since what last gencon, and before that he played at what gencon? so the guy played in two gencons no regionals or anything.... and yet design sure thing. Daniel is the same, played at gencon, then I don't think he played in a single regional or gencon this year, and yet design, yep sure. I mean you talk about people that keep the game going should get to design, and yet two out of three designer have played in a combined 2 gencons over 2 years and that's it. Seems kind of screwed up to me personally.
UrbanShmi
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2014 8:17:21 AM
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Joined: 2/17/2009
Posts: 1,446
TimmerB123 wrote:
jak wrote:
IMO I'd like to see more new blood in the design team.
seems like a re-shuffle of the same set of people(and their wife)


We went trough an extensive process to select a new designer for vset. 10. Laura had an impressive application and got picked through a multi-tiered voting process. I think she's a great addition to the team. If anything the fact that Laura is the wife of a designer may have hurt her a little in the process. I think a few designers voted "against" her for that reason alone. Her merits on her own were enough to overcome that though.

The plan is to continue doing that for each set, so we will have a healthy mix of veteran designers, and new blood. Our process was more open and public than ever before, and personally I think that is the right direction. We don't want to be a secret society, we want to have the strongest team. It's not accidental that of the individuals who submitted applications, the ones who already roll their sleeves up and do a lot of work in the community got the strongest consideration. They have proven their work ethic and dedication. It was still a very hard selection process, but we not only chose a new designer, but we also recruited several people among the applicants for other positions too.

Advice to anyone who is even remotely thinking about designing - get involved. Play-test, add thought-out and rational posts to forum discussions, make impressive squads, ask how you can help, etc.


So I should probably keep my mouth shut here, but I can't pretend I didn't know someone would say this (and I'm sure a lot of people are thinking it). Honestly, I had the thought myself when I submitted an application, and, as Tim said, it was something that the voters had to weigh for themselves. I'm very excited and grateful that so many of them were in my corner and could overlook that potential controversy to pick the person they thought would fill the role the best, but I understand the concerns. I also know that it was a very difficult choice among everyone who applied, particularly the five who were asked to submit stat blocks, and several of those people will almost certainly get a chance to design in the future (and deservedly so).

But let me assure people that I am absolutely not just a proxy for Jason. He has his ideas, and I have mine. Obviously I have benefited from his experience as a designer, and I will gratefully accept his help as a resource, but he's not looking over my shoulder and guiding my contributions. More to the point, at this point in the process, anyone who would be seriously considered to be added to the design team would be an "insider" in some way. Especially for set 10, whoever they picked would need to be able to "hit the ground running," so it would have to be someone with extensive prior knowledge of the game and the design process, in addition to the demonstrated dedication to the expansion and continuation of the community and competitive scene Tim referred to.

I can't say for sure that I "deserved this" more than anybody else (in fact, as I said to several people online and in person, I did not at all expect to get picked this time around, my personal connections notwithstanding). I can say that I'm going to do the absolute best I can to be active and involved and make set 10 as good as it can possibly be, as I know that Tim, Deri, Les, and everyone involved with quality control, playtesting, and all of the other things that go into this process are equally committed.
theultrastar
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2014 8:28:22 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 4/12/2010
Posts: 564
UrbanShmi wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
jak wrote:
IMO I'd like to see more new blood in the design team.
seems like a re-shuffle of the same set of people(and their wife)


We went trough an extensive process to select a new designer for vset. 10. Laura had an impressive application and got picked through a multi-tiered voting process. I think she's a great addition to the team. If anything the fact that Laura is the wife of a designer may have hurt her a little in the process. I think a few designers voted "against" her for that reason alone. Her merits on her own were enough to overcome that though.

The plan is to continue doing that for each set, so we will have a healthy mix of veteran designers, and new blood. Our process was more open and public than ever before, and personally I think that is the right direction. We don't want to be a secret society, we want to have the strongest team. It's not accidental that of the individuals who submitted applications, the ones who already roll their sleeves up and do a lot of work in the community got the strongest consideration. They have proven their work ethic and dedication. It was still a very hard selection process, but we not only chose a new designer, but we also recruited several people among the applicants for other positions too.

Advice to anyone who is even remotely thinking about designing - get involved. Play-test, add thought-out and rational posts to forum discussions, make impressive squads, ask how you can help, etc.


So I should probably keep my mouth shut here, but I can't pretend I didn't know someone would say this (and I'm sure a lot of people are thinking it). Honestly, I had the thought myself when I submitted an application, and, as Tim said, it was something that the voters had to weigh for themselves. I'm very excited and grateful that so many of them were in my corner and could overlook that potential controversy to pick the person they thought would fill the role the best, but I understand the concerns. I also know that it was a very difficult choice among everyone who applied, particularly the five who were asked to submit stat blocks, and several of those people will almost certainly get a chance to design in the future (and deservedly so).

But let me assure people that I am absolutely not just a proxy for Jason. He has his ideas, and I have mine. Obviously I have benefited from his experience as a designer, and I will gratefully accept his help as a resource, but he's not looking over my shoulder and guiding my contributions. More to the point, at this point in the process, anyone who would be seriously considered to be added to the design team would be an "insider" in some way. Especially for set 10, whoever they picked would need to be able to "hit the ground running," so it would have to be someone with extensive prior knowledge of the game and the design process, in addition to the demonstrated dedication to the expansion and continuation of the community and competitive scene Tim referred to.

I can't say for sure that I "deserved this" more than anybody else (in fact, as I said to several people online and in person, I did not at all expect to get picked this time around, my personal connections notwithstanding). I can say that I'm going to do the absolute best I can to be active and involved and make set 10 as good as it can possibly be, as I know that Tim, Deri, Les, and everyone involved with quality control, playtesting, and all of the other things that go into this process are equally committed.



You will do great Laura, congrats on getting picked. You could not have asked for a better crew to make your "Design" debut with. Deri, and Tim are both great design team players. I have no doubt that you will be put in the best possible position to showcase your talents. Once again, congrats!
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2014 8:31:06 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 5/31/2010
Posts: 1,628
UrbanShmi wrote:
TimmerB123 wrote:
jak wrote:
IMO I'd like to see more new blood in the design team.
seems like a re-shuffle of the same set of people(and their wife)


We went trough an extensive process to select a new designer for vset. 10. Laura had an impressive application and got picked through a multi-tiered voting process. I think she's a great addition to the team. If anything the fact that Laura is the wife of a designer may have hurt her a little in the process. I think a few designers voted "against" her for that reason alone. Her merits on her own were enough to overcome that though.

The plan is to continue doing that for each set, so we will have a healthy mix of veteran designers, and new blood. Our process was more open and public than ever before, and personally I think that is the right direction. We don't want to be a secret society, we want to have the strongest team. It's not accidental that of the individuals who submitted applications, the ones who already roll their sleeves up and do a lot of work in the community got the strongest consideration. They have proven their work ethic and dedication. It was still a very hard selection process, but we not only chose a new designer, but we also recruited several people among the applicants for other positions too.

Advice to anyone who is even remotely thinking about designing - get involved. Play-test, add thought-out and rational posts to forum discussions, make impressive squads, ask how you can help, etc.


So I should probably keep my mouth shut here, but I can't pretend I didn't know someone would say this (and I'm sure a lot of people are thinking it). Honestly, I had the thought myself when I submitted an application, and, as Tim said, it was something that the voters had to weigh for themselves. I'm very excited and grateful that so many of them were in my corner and could overlook that potential controversy to pick the person they thought would fill the role the best, but I understand the concerns. I also know that it was a very difficult choice among everyone who applied, particularly the five who were asked to submit stat blocks, and several of those people will almost certainly get a chance to design in the future (and deservedly so).

But let me assure people that I am absolutely not just a proxy for Jason. He has his ideas, and I have mine. Obviously I have benefited from his experience as a designer, and I will gratefully accept his help as a resource, but he's not looking over my shoulder and guiding my contributions. More to the point, at this point in the process, anyone who would be seriously considered to be added to the design team would be an "insider" in some way. Especially for set 10, whoever they picked would need to be able to "hit the ground running," so it would have to be someone with extensive prior knowledge of the game and the design process, in addition to the demonstrated dedication to the expansion and continuation of the community and competitive scene Tim referred to.

I can't say for sure that I "deserved this" more than anybody else (in fact, as I said to several people online and in person, I did not at all expect to get picked this time around, my personal connections notwithstanding). I can say that I'm going to do the absolute best I can to be active and involved and make set 10 as good as it can possibly be, as I know that Tim, Deri, Les, and everyone involved with quality control, playtesting, and all of the other things that go into this process are equally committed.




good post. I do not think anyone has a problem with you being selected. You are exactly what people want to see new designers. You build awesome, unique squads, then actually use them at regionals/gencon and do well with them. It is one thing to come with a unique squad, another completely to use that unique squad and do well.

I think people just don't like the application process when it is clear no other designers had to do it. I also think people are upset that it has been the same 8-9 people designing every set from the beginning.
UrbanShmi
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2014 8:32:35 AM
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Joined: 2/17/2009
Posts: 1,446
Thanks, Bronson. I agree, I think I'm with about the best possible team for a "newbie," and I'm super-excited about what we're going to come up with over the next 11 months.

EDIT: @ DeathsBaine (sorry, we were posting at the same time), thanks to you, too. I hope my perspective as primarily a squad-builder will bring something useful to the design team this time around.
leshippy
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2014 9:14:32 AM
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Joined: 6/17/2009
Posts: 489
Bill, Dennis, Deri, Ruhk, Ray Becker, Eric, Les, Daniel, Weeks, Jason, Lou, Scott, Trevor, Jake, Tim, Brad, and now Luara.

That is 17 people with at least one lead designer on each set. I thought 8 or 9 was a bit low. Just sayin'

On top of the rest of the people that help or have helped with QC, Playtesting, or Graphics. I would guess we are close to having at least 30 to 50 people involved over the 5 years
DarkDracul
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2014 9:15:55 AM
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Joined: 4/18/2008
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People should keep in mind that we also now have a new playtest commitee leader, new playtest commitee members and several new playtesters. This process is truly a community effort and not just the work of small group of individuals.

Also, It's obvious that despite the appearance of nepotism, Laura was an excellent choice.
1. For years she has been one of the most creative squad builders handsdown. (Knows a wide variety of factions, combos and interactions)
2. For years she has been answering rules questions in rules threads. (Proven to be highly knowledgable of rules issues.)
3. She has participated and competed at high levels in multiple Regionals and Championships.
4. How many wives have a problem telling their husbands they are wrong.
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2014 9:30:31 AM
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Joined: 5/31/2010
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leshippy wrote:
Bill, Dennis, Deri, Ruhk, Ray Becker, Eric, Les, Daniel, Weeks, Jason, Lou, Scott, Trevor, Jake, Tim, Brad, and now Luara.

That is 17 people with at least one lead designer on each set. I thought 8 or 9 was a bit low. Just sayin'

On top of the rest of the people that help or have helped with QC, Playtesting, or Graphics. I would guess we are close to having at least 30 to 50 people involved over the 5 years



Even at 17 people there has been 15 sets (this includes the smaller subsets, but does not include bounty hunter challenge or epics.) so really not a whole lot of design change there.
leshippy
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2014 9:53:44 AM
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Well if you look at it that way sure. However, the design team learned after the first subset that having separate design teams for the subset doesn't work well. So, I am not really sure breaking the mini sets out by themselves and calling them sets is a good argument.

We try to give the community opportunity to be involved. Yet we only get limited response.

Deaths Baine and jak did you submit an application to be a designer?
jak
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2014 10:33:24 AM
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leshippy wrote:
jak wrote:
IMO I'd like to see more new blood in the design team.
seems like a re-shuffle of the same set of people(and their wife)


So I think many of the set designers owe me cash or at least drinks the next time we meet. Told you so.

Jak. Send me your address and I will send you a twenty. When you find it in the mail folded incorrectly send it back.


WTF does that mean, Les?



Echo24
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2014 10:36:52 AM
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It's a reference to an old saying "WotC could put $20 in every booster and gamers would complain about how it was folded". It's just impossible to please some people. If we pick designers completely secretly by just general agreement among ourselves, people complain about it. If we create a way for anyone to submit an application and be considered, people complain about it.
jak
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2014 10:36:58 AM
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DarkDracul wrote:

4. How many wives have a problem telling their husbands they are wrong.




any married man knows that a wife's job is to tell her husband he is wrongLaugh
Deaths_Baine
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2014 11:05:47 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 5/31/2010
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leshippy wrote:
Well if you look at it that way sure. However, the design team learned after the first subset that having separate design teams for the subset doesn't work well. So, I am not really sure breaking the mini sets out by themselves and calling them sets is a good argument.

We try to give the community opportunity to be involved. Yet we only get limited response.

Deaths Baine and jak did you submit an application to be a designer?




lol, i laugh at this 100% of course i did not waste my time submitting anything, it was pointless, as i was not going to be chosen. I know that i will never be a designer for the V-sets i am WAY to open about voicing all my complaints about them to be included in the design portion of it.

The one thing i will say is that i am not against the v-sets or even the designers, i just think that problems created by their pieces should be addressed, so should the limited amount of communitty input that has been allowed thus far.
THEGUNGAN
Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2014 12:33:53 PM
Rank: Vornskr
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Joined: 12/25/2009
Posts: 27
Echo24 wrote:
It's a reference to an old saying "WotC could put $20 in every booster and gamers would complain about how it was folded". It's just impossible to please some people. If we pick designers completely secretly by just general agreement among ourselves, people complain about it. If we create a way for anyone to submit an application and be considered, people complain about it.


not if we have good marketing that gets others involved.
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