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it doesn't matter since they broke their own rules with Draay.
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Jonnyb815 wrote:Echo24 wrote:Jonnyb815 wrote:This is a real big deal all other pieces that had Camaraderie also have the SA they give out. This has nothing to do with cade it has to do with rules that you guys as designers made for yourself and you are breaking them.
I also know that pieces were changed in the past because they gave out a SA via but didnt have it.
So now any piece can give out any SA they want? If it's balanced, why not? What SPECIFICALLY is your reasoning against it? Because there were rules set when the SA was made. I will PM more. First, don't both PMing me, you already brought this discussion public with a ranting post, so I'd rather it continue in public. You have never been a designer, so I can forgive that you don't know much about the design process. What is really absurd is that you THINK you know about "rules" set by designers, when in reality you don't. In general, we wanted to keep abilities given out to abilities that the character also has. We want this for all abilities or CEs that give out SAs. It helps the card stay more readable and less cluttered, and it makes some amount of sense. By no means is this a hard and fast rule, though. It's just a guideline. You have yet to give a single compelling reason as to why the design of the piece or the game in general is any worse off for the decision of him giving Twin but not having it. You have said that there are "rules to be followed", but you are outright wrong about that. This is just misinformed (or uninformed) whining.
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Deaths_Baine wrote:TheHutts wrote:Deaths_Baine wrote:If anything i would think people should be complaining about a 14 point new republic piece that can shut down force powers in 6 square area. This game did not need even more force/jedi hate. It shuts down Force Abilities right? So Bastila, Atris etc - not anywhere near as extreme. oh man i thought it meant any force power.... read it WAAAYYYY WRONG thanks for pointing that out  ^quickly goes and edits post^ sorry guys... carry on lol. now if Force Control canceled out ALL force powers then THAT would be an issue lol. Sorry I guess the conversation continued while I was writing so I missed the realization
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Jonnyb815 wrote:All the other pieces that give out SA have it.
Not true in the slightest. The following characters have a CE that gives others an ability they do not have: General Veers Padme Amidala Durge Yoda, Jedi Master Tion Medon Nute Gunray Super Battle Droid Commander Prince Xizor Han Solo, Rebel Hero Old Republic Commander Exar Kun Sith Trooper Commander Uliq Qel-Droma General Windu Lord Vader Han Solo in Stormtrooper Armor Rebel Leader Admiral Piett Imperial Governor Tarkin Advance Agent, Officer Felucian Stormtrooper Officer Star Destroyer Officer Ugnaught Boss Darth Krayt Republic Commando Training Sergeant Emperor Roan Fel Corellian Security Officer Old Republic Captain Supreme Chancellor Palpatine Darth Sidious Hologram Commander Gree General Grievous, Droid Army Commander (Also a guy that gives out Twin but doesn't have it!) General Rieekan Darth Vader, Legacy of the Force Sandtrooper Officer Snowtrooper Officer Thrawn The Jedi Exile General Grievous, Scourge of the Jedi General Whorm Loathsom (Another Twin Attack granter without Twin) Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi General A'Sharad Hett Anakin Skywalker, Force Spirit Lando Calrissian, Rebel Leader Darth Vader, Sith Apprentice Grievous, Kaleesh Warlord General Veers, Hologram And that's just the WotC stuff. I think it's safe to say there's precedent of commanders giving out abilities they don't have.
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Echo24 wrote:Jonnyb815 wrote:Echo24 wrote:Jonnyb815 wrote:This is a real big deal all other pieces that had Camaraderie also have the SA they give out. This has nothing to do with cade it has to do with rules that you guys as designers made for yourself and you are breaking them.
I also know that pieces were changed in the past because they gave out a SA via but didnt have it.
So now any piece can give out any SA they want? If it's balanced, why not? What SPECIFICALLY is your reasoning against it? Because there were rules set when the SA was made. I will PM more. First, don't both PMing me, you already brought this discussion public with a ranting post, so I'd rather it continue in public. You have never been a designer, so I can forgive that you don't know much about the design process. What is really absurd is that you THINK you know about "rules" set by designers, when in reality you don't. In general, we wanted to keep abilities given out to abilities that the character also has. We want this for all abilities or CEs that give out SAs. It helps the card stay more readable and less cluttered, and it makes some amount of sense. By no means is this a hard and fast rule, though. It's just a guideline. You have yet to give a single compelling reason as to why the design of the piece or the game in general is any worse off for the decision of him giving Twin but not having it. You have said that there are "rules to be followed", but you are outright wrong about that. This is just misinformed (or uninformed) whining. Then why was Jan changed to add SA to her.
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Echo24 wrote:Jonnyb815 wrote:Echo24 wrote:Jonnyb815 wrote:This is a real big deal all other pieces that had Camaraderie also have the SA they give out. This has nothing to do with cade it has to do with rules that you guys as designers made for yourself and you are breaking them.
I also know that pieces were changed in the past because they gave out a SA via but didnt have it.
So now any piece can give out any SA they want? If it's balanced, why not? What SPECIFICALLY is your reasoning against it? Because there were rules set when the SA was made. I will PM more. First, don't both PMing me, you already brought this discussion public with a ranting post, so I'd rather it continue in public. You have never been a designer, so I can forgive that you don't know much about the design process. What is really absurd is that you THINK you know about "rules" set by designers, when in reality you don't. In general, we wanted to keep abilities given out to abilities that the character also has. We want this for all abilities or CEs that give out SAs. It helps the card stay more readable and less cluttered, and it makes some amount of sense. By no means is this a hard and fast rule, though. It's just a guideline. You have yet to give a single compelling reason as to why the design of the piece or the game in general is any worse off for the decision of him giving Twin but not having it. You have said that there are "rules to be followed", but you are outright wrong about that. This is just misinformed (or uninformed) whining. Go look at Jan thread and a few other threads. I am not wrong that the person that made that SA didnt want this to happen. For the record Cade is fine. I just know who ever designed that SA had a different view point than how its being made now.
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Just looked it up. Trevor asked in Jan's design thread whether it was a hard and fast rule that the character giving out the ability had that ability. Scott replied with this: Quote:It's more of a guideline. Keeping the abilities granted as ones that don't need the full defination would be helpful.
Copy and pasted that straight from the thread.
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its been two or three years but there was something there or I wouldn't be this upset.
Either way can a mod move or delete this thread its just a random rant that is bad for the game.
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Jonnyb815 wrote:its been two or three years but there was something there or I wouldn't be this upset.
Either way can a mod move or delete this thread its just a random rant that is bad for the game. except again, she was in the same set as Draay who doesn't follow that, Echo says that isn't a hard rule for designing pieces. WotC did it all the time, I'm just a little puzzled as to why this makes you upset.
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Jonnyb815 wrote:its been two or three years but there was something there or I wouldn't be this upset.
Either way can a mod move or delete this thread its just a random rant that is bad for the game. Lol +1
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Look at Corso Riggs, who was in the next set after Camaraderie debuted. Twin and +4 Attack? Not even an ability, just a bonus. So this "rule" was broken before the ink was dry on it. 
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I can't believe what I'm reading here. I see zero problem. Great piece, by the way. Kudos to v-team 
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Johnnyb815 has a problem with a new V-Set piece. We're all shocked.
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adamb0nd wrote:I can't believe what I'm reading here. I see zero problem. Great piece, by the way. Kudos to v-team +42 (the answer to life the universe and everything)I l  the interaction with Blue and Syn
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