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fingersandteeth wrote:i suggest that its just a better re-write of the original glossary from
Characters within 6 squares cannot spend force points. This character and characters within 6 squares cannot be targeted by force powers
to
Characters within 6 squares cannot spend force points. This character and characters within 6 squares cannot be affected by force powers
it all came about because of transfer essence, which does not target.
make it "affect" and the issues go away. No idea why the change was made to include adding a special ability to people in the bubble. I'm fine with this as well. Mostly I want the force immunity granting gone. Thrawn should have force immunity, not everyone else.
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billiv15 wrote:fingersandteeth wrote:i suggest that its just a better re-write of the original glossary from
Characters within 6 squares cannot spend force points. This character and characters within 6 squares cannot be targeted by force powers
to
Characters within 6 squares cannot spend force points. This character and characters within 6 squares cannot be affected by force powers
it all came about because of transfer essence, which does not target.
make it "affect" and the issues go away. No idea why the change was made to include adding a special ability to people in the bubble. I'm fine with this as well. Mostly I want the force immunity granting gone. Thrawn should have force immunity, not everyone else. I agree with this, and fully support this.
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billiv15 wrote:swinefeld wrote:3 needs some work. The bubble is only protecting the Ysalimiri piece from any FP activated outside the bubble.
I don't see that. Please explain your reasoning. Quote:Ysalamiri: This character gains Force Immunity. Characters within 6 squares cannot spend Force points and enemies cannot affect this character with Force powers, or spend Force points to reroll attacks against this character. Not at all Rob's intent, as described.
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I think we found in a winner.
Awesome job peeps. Is a poll neccessary for this one? I think it is a small change that is good for the game and just plain makes sense.
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theultrastar wrote:billiv15 wrote:fingersandteeth wrote:i suggest that its just a better re-write of the original glossary from
Characters within 6 squares cannot spend force points. This character and characters within 6 squares cannot be targeted by force powers
to
Characters within 6 squares cannot spend force points. This character and characters within 6 squares cannot be affected by force powers
it all came about because of transfer essence, which does not target.
make it "affect" and the issues go away. No idea why the change was made to include adding a special ability to people in the bubble. I'm fine with this as well. Mostly I want the force immunity granting gone. Thrawn should have force immunity, not everyone else. I agree with this, and fully support this. Another +1 from me, then. But FIRST I'd like to hear from the Rules experts what kinds of impacts this will have. The last thing I'd want to do is have us unintentionally create another monster by addressing this one.
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atmsalad wrote:fingersandteeth wrote:i would say that "affected by" means damage, stat changes, movement or gaining/losing SAs by a force power.
The only clarifications needed are what force powers affect the wielder and which affect the target which we have already dealt with.
Lightsaber throw affects the wielder by allowing him to make 2 attacks at range. Even with the current wording of Ysalimiri you can throw into the bubble. Sith rage also affects the wielder. Lightsaber sweep also only affects the wielder.
Lighting, push, transfer essence, throw, pull, repulse all affect the target/victim. These would not be able to affect a figure within ysalimiri with the proposed new wording.
Essentially, all i've done is gone back to WotCs original Ysalimiri definition and made it so that non-targeting force powers (like transfer essence, which is why it was changed anyway) don't do anything inside the bubble.
Its what should have happened in the first place IMO. Huge +1 Ditto. @TINT: Thanks for the explanation! 
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swinefeld wrote:billiv15 wrote:swinefeld wrote:3 needs some work. The bubble is only protecting the Ysalimiri piece from any FP activated outside the bubble.
I don't see that. Please explain your reasoning. Quote:Ysalamiri: This character gains Force Immunity. Characters within 6 squares cannot spend Force points and enemies cannot affect this character with Force powers, or spend Force points to reroll attacks against this character. Not at all Rob's intent, as described. Ah that's the error. Cool, here's the rewrite. Ysalamiri: This character gains Force Immunity. Characters within 6 squares cannot spend Force points and enemies cannot affect characters within 6 with Force powers, or spend Force points to reroll attacks against characters within 6. Something like that at any rate. Still, I like the idea of going back to the original wording with Deri's update just as much. Same concept, simpler wording.
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In the words of Rafiki
It is time.
I don't see why having a ysalamiri on your shoulder would give you Force immunity anymore than it would the guy 1 foot away from you.
I think the easiest and simplest and best way to represent this is the People wihtin 6 squares cannot use force powers and people within 6 squares cannot be affected by force powers.
I am just thinking into text here.
Does Lightsaber throw present a problem? not really. Sure they can throw the lightsaber and it would still fly just from sheer power of the throw. However, they draw the lightsaber back to their hand with the force, something they could not do once the lightsaber enters the bubble. Also I am sure for things like Throw 3 they are manipulating the lightsaber as it is in the air, etc to hit every single person.
Question being, are things of the mind affected? or a character affect itself? For instance, could you use anticipate while within the bubble?
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I've been told for 5 years that we must not change any WotC pieces.
why now?
why this SA that is on only 2 pieces,and not the farkin' mouse droid!
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jak wrote:I've been told for 5 years that we must not change any WotC pieces.
why now?
why this piece that is on only 2 pieces,and not the farkin' mouse droid! Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. It would be a major departure from how things have been handled up until now. This is a discussion about what, if anything, is wrong with how WotC handled Ysalimiri. As far as implementing a change, that is another discussion, along with heavy review of potential ramifications. That discussion will involve others that are not (so far) commenting in this thread.
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jak wrote:I've been told for 5 years that we must not change any WotC pieces.
why now?
why this SA that is on only 2 pieces,and not the farkin' mouse droid! Because of two reasons that you may or may not accept. 1.) There's precedent from Rob for changing this one, as he did it, and we'd be doing something like what we did for SSM, bringing it back to intent. 2.) Because slippery slopes are a bad argument form. They are the argument made from following only one logical type of rationality, which is the this means that, which then means we must this. There's actually no moral or logical reason that the next step ever has to be made. We use arguments like "not touching WotC pieces" to shut down the constant barrage of people asking for whatever bothers them to be fixed to their vision of correct. But to every rule, there are always, always the exceptions. That's true in anything you do. Ysal has never worked correctly. Rob gave us what I consider an overreaction response to being wrong on how Transfer Essence worked. He made it simple, he also made it super powerful, well beyond what it ever should have or needed to be. Deri's answer is perfect. Gets back to original intent and cleans up the stupidity of force immune shots across the board. As for mice, or any other WotC rule that bothers you, the game is abstractions, the rules are abstractions, it will never be perfect, as a rule of thumb (which means pragmatism, not hard line), we'd only ever consider something that made sense for improving game play and balance issues. Ysal presents a balance issue, has for a long time.
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jak,
I think this one is only under discussion because (a) WotC already errata'ed it once a long time ago, so in a sense it's reverting to a previous definition (like what was done with SSM) and (b) it's a glossary change instead of a card change.
Also, as Swinefeld said... talking about and getting it done are two separate things.
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WOTC changed the glossary/FAQ when they needed to. This is needed for the health of the game.
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fingersandteeth wrote:i suggest that its just a better re-write of the original glossary from
Characters within 6 squares cannot spend force points. This character and characters within 6 squares cannot be targeted by force powers
to
Characters within 6 squares cannot spend force points. This character and characters within 6 squares cannot be affected by force powers
it all came about because of transfer essence, which does not target.
make it "affect" and the issues go away. No idea why the change was made to include adding a special ability to people in the bubble. +1. Make it happen guys. Let's make this right! A (6 pt snowtrooper, especially) or any shooter in the bubble shooting at a Force User outside of the bubble should never have hindered the Force user from using Reflect or Deflect or re-rolling an evade save with spending a Force pt!
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Under what we're currently going with, can Talon, Pellaeon, or Thrawn THEMSELVES still shoot from within the bubble and not have it acted on? If so, is there a way we can word it that they can't?
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are Talon or Pellaeon still costed right? this does effect them the most.
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Characters within 6 squares including this character cannot spend force points. This character and characters within 6 squares cannot be affected by force powers.
Added "including this character" to answer Jim's question.
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billiv15 wrote:Characters within 6 squares including this character cannot spend force points. This character and characters within 6 squares cannot be affected by force powers.
perfect.
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Leave it alone. We do not need to be jacking up every single ability that some do not like. It has been around forever and should be left alone.
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Jonnyb815 wrote:are Talon or Pellaeon still costed right? this does effect them the most. Good question. (Also, I doubt that their cost is going to be changed, regardless) AceAce wrote:Leave it alone. We do not need to be jacking up every single ability that some do not like. It has been around forever and should be left alone. But this isn't "every single ability." This is just one SA. That people have complained about forever. That's already been changed once (like SSM). And that the majority of active users seem to support being changed again, to reflect original intent.
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