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awesome wrote:there is one more weakness at least GGDAC squads, massive damage and allot of attacks he will run out of FP's and get killed, and the Lancers with Sid could wipe out all his reinforcements in 1 round. when i have about 6 to 8 force points i will gladly stick GOWK out and let him get shoot by the igs then I will have dash take one out a round since they cannot moble away. the lancer will only be able to take out r2 and uggs and mice everyone else have more than 40 hp then the lancer will DIE
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Exactly. And for the love of all miniatures, if someone here is going to say that he's easy to beat, please explain (more than RannKonnar and swmimperial130's explanations).
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IG-108 wrote:My friend, by asking this questiong, you are opening up a can of something violent and seems like it'll never die. That, and the same question has been asked in multiple threads, causing mass chaos and anger. Im not trying to open up nothing, i made a yes or no poll. Wasnt intended to have people post on the thread just wanted to know what percentage were thinking yes to ban him, & what percentage were thinking no. Nice and simple. No harm intended. Its a thing i personally wanted to know & just wanted to see the numbers. But i completely understand what your saying. So i hope you understand what i wanted to do. Like i said not trying to start anything & open any cans of stuff, just wanted to personally know the numbers.
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Eroschilles wrote:I'm not sure if this poll is beating a dead horse. It's just giving tangible numbers to see how everyone feels. The OP did reference the other thread that was the debate portion. Thank you Eroschilles, im glad atleast someone understood this poll. I really wasnt intending for people to write, reply or comment on the subject. It would just be easier to get an actual number of what the people were thinking to where if it did come down to banning him or not & the power up above wanted to know what the players were thinking. Then they have the numbers to look at. & not even completely for that reason i just would like the personally see the numbers as well, so i hope everyone understands what i made the poll. Like i said before wasnt intended to start another debate like the other thread, just would like to see the numbers, Thanx to all who voted too.
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awesome wrote:mercenary_moose wrote:StriderRe80 wrote:RannKonnar wrote:MAKE THE MADNESS STOP!!!!
OBI-WAN HAS TONS OF WEAKNESSES!!! He has 3 Vong (which has a 50 50 shot) Rebel push (which also has a 50 50 shot of winning) and Vader Unleashed (which also has a 50 50 shot) those are the only squads that have a chance at beating him any other direct damage will get shot to peices by dash, rex or stoped by the JWM I do not call that a ton of weakness swmimperial130 wrote:
Yes! and he won't always make the 11 or better save!
Yea but i am sure he can roll a 7 or 3 and still take no damage I am hearing that he is beatable but noone will say how he was beaten. did the player just run him into the center thinking he won't get hit, did it take a 1hr and 30 mins to beat or was it even a DCI game honestly now this thread is pointless the decision has already been made and in 2 days he is going to be banned and their is nothing that will be done now I'm with Strider here all the way. there is one more weakness at least GGDAC squads, massive damage and allot of attacks he will run out of FP's and get killed, and the Lancers with Sid could wipe out all his reinforcements in 1 round. Yeah that is what my opponent in Regionals thought with his lancer. It was a shame I had spent my reinforcments on the Jawa Scavenger and used doombot to tow him to the Lancer. That Lancer went down in one flippin Utinni screaming shot.
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Darth Percocet wrote:Its a thing i personally wanted to know & just wanted to see the numbers. Well, the numbers do not speak in favor of banning. I was expecting it to be more even. I do not wish to start anything either, but I wonder how many people actually had DCI play in mind. For example, I think he should be banned for DCI just to allow the game to catch up. However, this does not mean I will not use Kenobi in casual games. Again, I do not want to start anything.
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defender390 wrote:Darth Percocet wrote:Its a thing i personally wanted to know & just wanted to see the numbers. Well, the numbers do not speak in favor of banning. I was expecting it to be more even. I do not wish to start anything either, but I wonder how many people actually had DCI play in mind. For example, I think he should be banned for DCI just to allow the game to catch up. However, this does not mean I will not use Kenobi in casual games. Again, I do not want to start anything. Well polls are also effected by your membership. The poll on gamers was in favor. and would have been even more so as some people changed their minds but could not change their votes. The thing is like Brian said with the DCI FLoor rules due to be posted on the website in 2 days the decision has already been made. The floor rules have already been written
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dnemiller wrote:awesome wrote:mercenary_moose wrote:StriderRe80 wrote:RannKonnar wrote:MAKE THE MADNESS STOP!!!!
OBI-WAN HAS TONS OF WEAKNESSES!!! He has 3 Vong (which has a 50 50 shot) Rebel push (which also has a 50 50 shot of winning) and Vader Unleashed (which also has a 50 50 shot) those are the only squads that have a chance at beating him any other direct damage will get shot to peices by dash, rex or stoped by the JWM I do not call that a ton of weakness swmimperial130 wrote:
Yes! and he won't always make the 11 or better save!
Yea but i am sure he can roll a 7 or 3 and still take no damage I am hearing that he is beatable but noone will say how he was beaten. did the player just run him into the center thinking he won't get hit, did it take a 1hr and 30 mins to beat or was it even a DCI game honestly now this thread is pointless the decision has already been made and in 2 days he is going to be banned and their is nothing that will be done now I'm with Strider here all the way. there is one more weakness at least GGDAC squads, massive damage and allot of attacks he will run out of FP's and get killed, and the Lancers with Sid could wipe out all his reinforcements in 1 round. Yeah that is what my opponent in Regionals thought with his lancer. It was a shame I had spent my reinforcments on the Jawa Scavenger and used doombot to tow him to the Lancer. That Lancer went down in one flippin Utinni screaming shot. well that really depends on who goes first or second, sure it could die easily but it could also do the opposite to the GOWK squads as well, see if the order would have been different than the lancer and sid, could have done 80 damage to the squad(probably not to GOWK though probably around 20 damage to him) unless he was stupid and decided to leave the lancer until the end, which would be dumb to do.
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defender390 wrote:Darth Percocet wrote:Its a thing i personally wanted to know & just wanted to see the numbers. Well, the numbers do not speak in favor of banning. I was expecting it to be more even. I do not wish to start anything either, but I wonder how many people actually had DCI play in mind. For example, I think he should be banned for DCI just to allow the game to catch up. However, this does not mean I will not use Kenobi in casual games. Again, I do not want to start anything. Banning is only for DCI play anyways. I am sure you are right, as that has been the single most common denominator for anti-banners, "I don't play DCI but I don't think anything should be banned". But honestly, no one cares about the numbers anyways. It isn't a popularity contest. The issue is a problem primarily at the top levels of play, and sorry if this sounds elitiest, but it's true - most players don't play at that level. So obviously the "majority" would never see it as a problem locally. Case in point, the people in this very thread arguing that at 150pts, they beat GOWK with Sep Droids on a regular basis. Sorry, that just isn't true. In 150pts DCI, Sep Droids have about a 10% chance to win against GOWK. It might be even less. Remember, at the top levels of play, GOWK doesn't just run out in the open to let you double twin with opp with 4 IGs with 0 fps. It just doesn't work like that.
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dnemiller wrote:
The floor rules have already been written
so does that mean GOWK is outlawed now or not?, so we can stop all these GOWK posts
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awesome wrote:
well that really depends on who goes first or second, sure it could die easily but it could also do the opposite to the GOWK squads as well,
see if the order would have been different than the lancer and sid, could have done 80 damage to the squad(probably not to GOWK though probably around 20 damage to him)
unless he was stupid and decided to leave the lancer until the end, which would be dumb to do.
not against double override it doesn't. He also didn't have Sid, because it was a 150pt game.
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Quote:Well polls are also effected by your membership. The poll on gamers was in favor. and would have been even more so as some people changed their minds but could not change their votes. Very True & Very Well Put. I didnt wanna comment on this thread about the Gowk issue but me personally i feel if a piece like this is gonna be such an issue that the SWM's community is basically splitting & turning into 2 groups of ban & not ban this piece. Then i feel he should be banned for the health of the game. There wasnt an issue that i know of with any of the figures before Gowk. I dont see by banning Gowk that people are gonna suggest that they should start banning other pieces like someone said in the other thread. The game to me seemed balanced before Gowk was made so i dont think that would be a problem. I just feel if a 1 figure is gonna cause this much of an issue than get rid of it to get the game back on track. There is still so many other pieces & combo's to use other than Gowk. So thats why i say ban him & lets just move on with the game. Thats my personal opinion.
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billiv15 wrote:
Case in point, the people in this very thread arguing that at 150pts, they beat GOWK with Sep Droids on a regular basis. Sorry, that just isn't true. In 150pts DCI, Sep Droids have about a 10% chance to win against GOWK. It might be even less. Remember, at the top levels of play, GOWK doesn't just run out in the open to let you double twin with opp with 4 IGs with 0 fps. It just doesn't work like that.
i beat him all the time with grievous squads. 4ig's with 21atk 4atttacks and 30 dmg.you can't avoid them forever and he can't kill them all either. only four attacks(or 6without opportunist) out of 16 a round need to get through. ive also used boba and gunslingers with double, twin, and greater mobile, vong jh's and warmaster, nombomb squads, etc. he's a challenge but he's also alot easier to kill than you give him credit for
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billiv15 wrote:awesome wrote:
well that really depends on who goes first or second, sure it could die easily but it could also do the opposite to the GOWK squads as well,
see if the order would have been different than the lancer and sid, could have done 80 damage to the squad(probably not to GOWK though probably around 20 damage to him)
unless he was stupid and decided to leave the lancer until the end, which would be dumb to do.
not against double override it doesn't. He also didn't have Sid, because it was a 150pt game. ah, ok, in 150 no GGDAC isnt as playable but you can have allot more on 200, override to allot extra pieces. but Republic is one of the cheesyist factions, a little 9 point piece that has override, flight, tow cable, shock why cant he be for rebels or even fringe. I dont think though that tourny's are going to see much more of GOWK anyways.
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strate_jakit wrote:
i beat him all the time with grievous squads. 4ig's with 21atk 4atttacks and 30 dmg.you can't avoid them forever and he can't kill them all either. only four attacks(or 6without opportunist) out of 16 a round need to get through.
ive also used boba and gunslingers with double, twin, and greater mobile, vong jh's and warmaster, nombomb squads, etc.
he's alot easier to kill than you give him credit for
No he's not, but I am not really going to argue with you about it either. I am tired of trying to explain top level DCI tournament play to people who don't play it, and end up turning it into a flame war and name calling event because they don't have the experience to actually understand the issues. Just to clarify, if you think GGDAC, 4 IGs, BDO, GO (which is 150pts) is a good 150pt squad, then you don't have any idea what top level play is. That might sound harsh, but it's just the reality of it. You have no door control, no way to protect the GO, no way to force me to activate to ensure opp, and no movement breakers to make sure you can actually take quad attacks. You would lose to me with GOWK 99/100, and I think that is being generous. If you think we are talking about 200pt squads, then you haven't seen what a 200pt GOWK, Yodabuck squad does to the droids. But ultimately, 200 isn't the primary issue.
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Quote:Banning is only for DCI play anyways. I am sure you are right, as that has been the single most common denominator for anti-banners, "I don't play DCI but I don't think anything should be banned" Very well put, always interested on seeing your thoughts, very good point. Its always good to see the point of veiws from people other than yourself. Makes it easier to open your mind up to other veiws. From reading all the statements & opinions from others i think opened my mind up to look at all the possibilities now now of weither i think he should be banned or not. Even though some people might think these threads are here to cause fights or cause the community to split up & go one way or the other, i feel we need threads like these so that when we have a certain opinion on a situation that is stuck in our mind & dont wanna hear anything else. These threads make you think over all possibilities because of everyones in-put on the matter and this way by thinking over all details on the matter you find yourself disagreeing with your initial decision. So i think we need threads like these, just because it opens our minds up to think clearly. Again thats just my personal opinion.
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awesome wrote:billiv15 wrote:awesome wrote:
well that really depends on who goes first or second, sure it could die easily but it could also do the opposite to the GOWK squads as well,
see if the order would have been different than the lancer and sid, could have done 80 damage to the squad(probably not to GOWK though probably around 20 damage to him)
unless he was stupid and decided to leave the lancer until the end, which would be dumb to do.
not against double override it doesn't. He also didn't have Sid, because it was a 150pt game. ah, ok, in 150 no GGDAC isnt as playable but you can have allot more on 200, override to allot extra pieces. but Republic is one of the cheesyist factions, a little 9 point piece that has override, flight, tow cable, shock why cant he be for rebels or even fringe. I dont think though that tourny's are going to see much more of GOWK anyways. yes but at 200 the jawa scavenger is not even necessary. For the extra 50 points your opponents can basically get more jwm's in the squad. Then setup where if you strafe you have to fly over the JWM's. They Riposte and only need 2 hit at +16 and your Lancer has bit the dust. Not good to lose something like that so quickly. So it would be up to you would you still want to strafe or would you move in closer to get the regular attack at which point the Jawa Scavenger being towed becomes a real issue. If you go ahead and activate hopiing to avoid the Jawa Scavenger then you have to worry about a towed Dash.
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dnemiller wrote:awesome wrote:billiv15 wrote:awesome wrote:
well that really depends on who goes first or second, sure it could die easily but it could also do the opposite to the GOWK squads as well,
see if the order would have been different than the lancer and sid, could have done 80 damage to the squad(probably not to GOWK though probably around 20 damage to him)
unless he was stupid and decided to leave the lancer until the end, which would be dumb to do.
not against double override it doesn't. He also didn't have Sid, because it was a 150pt game. ah, ok, in 150 no GGDAC isnt as playable but you can have allot more on 200, override to allot extra pieces. but Republic is one of the cheesyist factions, a little 9 point piece that has override, flight, tow cable, shock why cant he be for rebels or even fringe. I dont think though that tourny's are going to see much more of GOWK anyways. yes but at 200 the jawa scavenger is not even necessary. For the extra 50 points your opponents can basically get more jwm's in the squad. Then setup where if you strafe you have to fly over the JWM's. They Riposte and only need 2 hit at +16 and your Lancer has bit the dust. Not good to lose something like that so quickly. So it would be up to you would you still want to strafe or would you move in closer to get the regular attack at which point the Jawa Scavenger being towed becomes a real issue. If you go ahead and activate hopiing to avoid the Jawa Scavenger then you have to worry about a towed Dash. you dont have to attack everyone that you move over, its a choice so I dont have to attack the JWM's but if I wipe out the rest of your support, the JWM's are melee, so they have to go for a suicide mission to try to kill the IG's
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awesome wrote:
you dont have to attack everyone that you move over, its a choice so I dont have to attack the JWM's but if I wipe out the rest of your support, the JWM's are melee, so they have to go for a suicide mission to try to kill the IG's
Yes you do. Strafe specifically requires you to attack everyone you intend to pass over. I can see how not understanding this rule would affect your playtests against yourself. Since you don't know how strafe works, you certainly didn't know how easy it is to counter with +16 atk 23D JWMs.
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billiv15 wrote:strate_jakit wrote:
i beat him all the time with grievous squads. 4ig's with 21atk 4atttacks and 30 dmg.you can't avoid them forever and he can't kill them all either. only four attacks(or 6without opportunist) out of 16 a round need to get through.
ive also used boba and gunslingers with double, twin, and greater mobile, vong jh's and warmaster, nombomb squads, etc.
he's alot easier to kill than you give him credit for
No he's not, but I am not really going to argue with you about it either. I am tired of trying to explain top level DCI tournament play to people who don't play it, and end up turning it into a flame war and name calling event because they don't have the experience to actually understand the issues. Just to clarify, if you think GGDAC, 4 IGs, BDO, GO (which is 150pts) is a good 150pt squad, then you don't have any idea what top level play is. That might sound harsh, but it's just the reality of it. You have no door control, no way to protect the GO, no way to force me to activate to ensure opp, and no movement breakers to make sure you can actually take quad attacks. You would lose to me with GOWK 99/100, and I think that is being generous. If you think we are talking about 200pt squads, then you haven't seen what a 200pt GOWK, Yodabuck squad does to the droids. But ultimately, 200 isn't the primary issue. a big gun has served me well enough and i have seen and used yobuck and gowk and i have played that exact grievous squad at tourneys twice and gotten first place with it twice. some of us don't need actiivations door control or initiative control to do good 
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