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GOWK is banned. And after? Options
Sithborg
Posted: Friday, July 3, 2009 12:41:42 PM
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Honestly, it will only be annoying because they will clutter the forums. Those in charge have rightfully ignored those complaints before, and I don't see how banning Obi, a piece that hurts the game far, far more than the other pieces, will make them change their mind now on those, or upcoming, pieces. There is no slippery slope. Rob made one design mistake in all these years, and so far, his design trends do not indicate that he will continue with GOWK level pieces.
Dr. Destructo
Posted: Friday, July 3, 2009 12:42:27 PM
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I hope you're right...
Sithborg
Posted: Friday, July 3, 2009 12:46:37 PM
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Joined: 8/24/2008
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Well, the bulk of those calling for the ban on Obi-wan were against bans on the other "problem" pieces. Honestly, the only piece that was ban worthy was Override pieces pre-Gambit. Not an issue now, though.
StriderRe80
Posted: Friday, July 3, 2009 12:48:41 PM
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The person who is in charge did not make the decision to ban GOWK lightly and he is doing it for the good of the game and he will not do anything that has not been tested over and over and over. the other pieces that are in question will not be banned and will not be pressured to ban them becasue they are nothing like GOWK
madslaust
Posted: Friday, July 3, 2009 2:18:33 PM
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GOWK got banned?
greentime
Posted: Friday, July 3, 2009 2:28:08 PM
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This is a drastic improvement for the meta. As Dean, Bill, Lobosteele, and many many others have been saying, as long as GOWK is out, the only viable squads are GOWK-centric and GOWK-hate. We have seen this in the regional tournament results. Unless GOWK went, every tournament was going to be the same as the regionals -- GOWK beats non-GOWK a large majority of the time, and the only non-GOWK that has a chance is something that has tricks specifically to take him down.

Instead we have, now, still-viable Republic squads (replace GOWK with new Yoda, hell, that's pretty good straight-up; Yobuck, tons of good Jedi, etc.), still-viable Rebel squads (they have by far the most flexibility and the best slate of commanders overall), still-viable Imperial squads (very nasty individual pieces and a great set of commanders like Thrawn and Tarkin), and still-viable "single model" squads like the BF, BH team that has success at several regionals. In addition, the removal of GOWK, as well as solid new figures like Cade, Kol, and the Ossus Guardian, makes the New Republic competitive. Old Republic is on the way, if not quite there yet, a category I would also put the Yuuzhan Vong in. At this point, almost every faction can put a very solid Tier 1 or 1.5 team on the board with every expectation of competing against most other squads. Even Old Republic and Sith!

No other figure warps the meta as GOWK did. Not Rieekan, not Dodonna, not Mas Ameda, not Yobuck, and not Luke's Hoopty. To my (amateur) eye, Rebels is the faction to beat right now. But they are by no means unbeatable.
billiv15
Posted: Friday, July 3, 2009 2:43:10 PM
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Joined: 4/4/2008
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You guys do realize that the top two complaints pre-GOWK errata were republic and Seps right? I hardly see how Rep leaves the top tier. Yodabuck alone ensures top tier play, as they can compete with anything the Rebels or NR can throw out there. Yoda and Rex can end the Speeder in one round in many cases, as well as eliminate their support quickly.

I played a 200pt game today of Sith vs NR (standard Wedge, Kyle, etc). It wasn't close. The Sith were very dominant. I suspect the meta isn't quite clear because GOWK has been clouding it for so long. If you think of it this way, we basically have two full sets of minis that haven't seen a GOWK-less meta, so it's like we really just got two new sets at once.
Sithborg
Posted: Friday, July 3, 2009 5:00:01 PM
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Joined: 8/24/2008
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billiv15 wrote:
You guys do realize that the top two complaints pre-GOWK errata were republic and Seps right? I hardly see how Rep leaves the top tier. Yodabuck alone ensures top tier play, as they can compete with anything the Rebels or NR can throw out there. Yoda and Rex can end the Speeder in one round in many cases, as well as eliminate their support quickly.

I played a 200pt game today of Sith vs NR (standard Wedge, Kyle, etc). It wasn't close. The Sith were very dominant. I suspect the meta isn't quite clear because GOWK has been clouding it for so long. If you think of it this way, we basically have two full sets of minis that haven't seen a GOWK-less meta, so it's like we really just got two new sets at once.


I know, it's amazing how quickly that is forgotten.

And I agree, with him gone, it is an exciting time for squad building. I was really excited to play with IE, and then the errata hit. So many fun, potentially good squads down the drain.
kenred2
Posted: Friday, July 3, 2009 5:13:37 PM
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Joined: 11/4/2008
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billiv15 wrote:
You guys do realize that the top two complaints pre-GOWK errata were republic and Seps right? I hardly see how Rep leaves the top tier. Yodabuck alone ensures top tier play, as they can compete with anything the Rebels or NR can throw out there. Yoda and Rex can end the Speeder in one round in many cases, as well as eliminate their support quickly.

I played a 200pt game today of Sith vs NR (standard Wedge, Kyle, etc). It wasn't close. The Sith were very dominant. I suspect the meta isn't quite clear because GOWK has been clouding it for so long. If you think of it this way, we basically have two full sets of minis that haven't seen a GOWK-less meta, so it's like we really just got two new sets at once.


Why is Yodabuck still competitive since enemy characters can take their AoO while Yodabuck is Galloping? I really don't think Yodabuck makes a difference since Doombot doesn't give this guy flight for effectiveness
Sithborg
Posted: Saturday, July 4, 2009 12:54:30 AM
Rank: Moderator
Groups: Member , Moderator, Rules Guy

Joined: 8/24/2008
Posts: 5,201
Yodabuck has enough HP that you can take a few calculated AoO. Yodabuck's speed, combined with R2 to get him into position, makes him the ultimate scrub and commander killer. Add in Panaka, and you have a top teir squad, Obi or no. Trust me, Yodabuck is a very good piece.
billiv15
Posted: Saturday, July 4, 2009 2:37:33 AM
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kenred2 wrote:
billiv15 wrote:
You guys do realize that the top two complaints pre-GOWK errata were republic and Seps right? I hardly see how Rep leaves the top tier. Yodabuck alone ensures top tier play, as they can compete with anything the Rebels or NR can throw out there. Yoda and Rex can end the Speeder in one round in many cases, as well as eliminate their support quickly.

I played a 200pt game today of Sith vs NR (standard Wedge, Kyle, etc). It wasn't close. The Sith were very dominant. I suspect the meta isn't quite clear because GOWK has been clouding it for so long. If you think of it this way, we basically have two full sets of minis that haven't seen a GOWK-less meta, so it's like we really just got two new sets at once.


Why is Yodabuck still competitive since enemy characters can take their AoO while Yodabuck is Galloping? I really don't think Yodabuck makes a difference since Doombot doesn't give this guy flight for effectiveness


Quite simply because as I have stated many times in the past, that ruling had almost 0 effect on Yoda's power. His power is in eliminating and getting to commanders and fodder quickly. His power is in eliminating small gambit collectors quickly. Prior to that errata, I had only ever used the tow attacks one time, and it wasn't a game changer. Almost always you tow R2, and then run Yoda. Probably 99% of the games. The Tow change affected Anakin on Stap significantly more.

I will turn this back on you, why was Yoda so effective in the regionals (obviously with GOWK but the premise was the same). Gallop Yoda somewhere tasty, do some damage and eliminate some acts, then swap in the big beat. Well, you now go back to Rex swapping and kill off the keep piece/commander (anything less than 90 hps is a dead target most times, and you can often do 120 to a weak defense figure if you roll decent).

For example - against Rebels. You tow Yoda, then gallop, taking out their Dodonna fodder, taking AoOs from their commanders to hit them all, taking out their mouse droids, etc. Then you let them go. In a worst case scenario, their Han/Leia or Speeder/Leia does 90 to Yoda (still has 70hps remaining). Then you swap in Rex (because their beat has gone already and Rex will now survive the round) and you kill whatever is important left, generally Leia, droids, Reeikan, etc. If you lose Rex (which you generally do around this time, you make sure it was worth it). That's how you play it. It is most certainly top tier. Other legit options include using some of the new Rep beats like the Dark Woman for example, to do some crazy stuff.
joelker41
Posted: Saturday, July 4, 2009 6:35:55 PM
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Joined: 9/13/2008
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kenred2 wrote:
billiv15 wrote:
You guys do realize that the top two complaints pre-GOWK errata were republic and Seps right? I hardly see how Rep leaves the top tier. Yodabuck alone ensures top tier play, as they can compete with anything the Rebels or NR can throw out there. Yoda and Rex can end the Speeder in one round in many cases, as well as eliminate their support quickly.

I played a 200pt game today of Sith vs NR (standard Wedge, Kyle, etc). It wasn't close. The Sith were very dominant. I suspect the meta isn't quite clear because GOWK has been clouding it for so long. If you think of it this way, we basically have two full sets of minis that haven't seen a GOWK-less meta, so it's like we really just got two new sets at once.


Why is Yodabuck still competitive since enemy characters can take their AoO while Yodabuck is Galloping? I really don't think Yodabuck makes a difference since Doombot doesn't give this guy flight for effectiveness


Because if you're taking mass amounts of AoOs with YoBuck you clearly aren't playing him correctly lol.

I see this argument all the time as to why YoBuck isn't top tier. People who complain about the AoOs clearly have no understanding of how to use him properly IMO. There is a reason why at my LGS and many others there are entire types of squads that don't see play and Disruptive saw a huge jump after Clone Wars, it's the YodaBuck effect.

The standard YoBuck build can probably win roughly 50% of competitive games now that GOWK is gone, and while there are many squads that can say that, YoBuck delivers time and time again and he will for a long time.

rbrown
Posted: Saturday, July 4, 2009 8:36:23 PM
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Master kkruhk looks stable
TK-4334
Posted: Sunday, July 5, 2009 3:12:16 AM
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Joined: 6/5/2009
Posts: 239
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billiv15 wrote:
kenred2 wrote:
billiv15 wrote:
You guys do realize that the top two complaints pre-GOWK errata were republic and Seps right? I hardly see how Rep leaves the top tier. Yodabuck alone ensures top tier play, as they can compete with anything the Rebels or NR can throw out there. Yoda and Rex can end the Speeder in one round in many cases, as well as eliminate their support quickly.

I played a 200pt game today of Sith vs NR (standard Wedge, Kyle, etc). It wasn't close. The Sith were very dominant. I suspect the meta isn't quite clear because GOWK has been clouding it for so long. If you think of it this way, we basically have two full sets of minis that haven't seen a GOWK-less meta, so it's like we really just got two new sets at once.


Why is Yodabuck still competitive since enemy characters can take their AoO while Yodabuck is Galloping? I really don't think Yodabuck makes a difference since Doombot doesn't give this guy flight for effectiveness


Quite simply because as I have stated many times in the past, that ruling had almost 0 effect on Yoda's power. His power is in eliminating and getting to commanders and fodder quickly. His power is in eliminating small gambit collectors quickly. Prior to that errata, I had only ever used the tow attacks one time, and it wasn't a game changer. Almost always you tow R2, and then run Yoda. Probably 99% of the games. The Tow change affected Anakin on Stap significantly more.

I will turn this back on you, why was Yoda so effective in the regionals (obviously with GOWK but the premise was the same). Gallop Yoda somewhere tasty, do some damage and eliminate some acts, then swap in the big beat. Well, you now go back to Rex swapping and kill off the keep piece/commander (anything less than 90 hps is a dead target most times, and you can often do 120 to a weak defense figure if you roll decent).

For example - against Rebels. You tow Yoda, then gallop, taking out their Dodonna fodder, taking AoOs from their commanders to hit them all, taking out their mouse droids, etc. Then you let them go. In a worst case scenario, their Han/Leia or Speeder/Leia does 90 to Yoda (still has 70hps remaining). Then you swap in Rex (because their beat has gone already and Rex will now survive the round) and you kill whatever is important left, generally Leia, droids, Reeikan, etc. If you lose Rex (which you generally do around this time, you make sure it was worth it). That's how you play it. It is most certainly top tier. Other legit options include using some of the new Rep beats like the Dark Woman for example, to do some crazy stuff.



for most commanders u need two or three actions with Yobuck (Dodonna 30HP, Rieekan 50HP, Mas 30HP, Lobot 30HP) but the chance that Rex or Yobuck get a secound turn isn´t very high. Sleep
and what do u want to do against NR Squad? u never can´t kill Antilles, Dodonna or Mara with Yobuck or Rex. They all have FP to reroll the Evade. There is no chance.
Or i play it wrong. hard to believe 4 me.
billiv15
Posted: Sunday, July 5, 2009 10:03:49 AM
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TK-4334 wrote:

for most commanders u need two or three actions with Yobuck (Dodonna 30HP, Rieekan 50HP, Mas 30HP, Lobot 30HP) but the chance that Rex or Yobuck get a secound turn isn´t very high. Sleep
and what do u want to do against NR Squad? u never can´t kill Antilles, Dodonna or Mara with Yobuck or Rex. They all have FP to reroll the Evade. There is no chance.
Or i play it wrong. hard to believe 4 me.


Perhaps you are not aware that Yodabuck can spend a fp for master speed, move 16, hit everything he wants on his way in, hit the target, then stop his move, and hit the target with a regular attack. Anything with 40 or less hps is a relatively easy kill. As far as things with 50-90, you often do the double hit, then sit. They generally can't take the AoO, and you can force their hand, which keeps Rex alive more often then not when he comes in. You won't need a second turn with Rex, if he is swapped into base with Mara, Han Smuggler, Reeikan, etc. Or even with 6 of them. Sometimes the figure might not die (+12) can be fickle. But as long as you get the figure close to death, Yoda is a good finisher. It's all about timing and target selection. I would be happy to show you on vassal sometime if you want.
here2play
Posted: Sunday, July 5, 2009 10:36:19 AM
Rank: Tusken Raider
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Joined: 7/5/2009
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Location: INDIANA
Im kinda new to the whole game and to this site, so can some1 please tell me who gowk is?
Doogle126
Posted: Sunday, July 5, 2009 10:38:23 AM
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General Obi-Wan Kenobi from the Clone Wars starter
here2play
Posted: Sunday, July 5, 2009 10:39:36 AM
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K, and why was he banned?
Doogle126
Posted: Sunday, July 5, 2009 10:39:56 AM
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People also can use the new Yoda. He is WAY better than people see. Use Ataru style mastery with Lightsaber Throw 3 And: BINGO Lightsaber throw 5 for 2 less FP XD
here2play
Posted: Sunday, July 5, 2009 10:41:16 AM
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Joined: 7/5/2009
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Doogle126 wrote:
People also can use the new Yoda. He is WAY better than people see. Use Ataru style mastery with Lightsaber Throw 3 And: BINGO Lightsaber throw 5 for 2 less FP XD

That didnt quite answer my question.
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