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I probably don't know many of these characters well enough to fully appreciate the pieces' stats, but I'll do my best. And since these are "lite" pieces, I couldn't really think of much to say about each piece specifically just because they are all supposed to be nice and simple. So, just a few words for the winners: 3rd (1pt): donnyridesThis is a great piece! 25 points of awesomeness! I like that he's got good stats/abilities/FP, but that he's got just enough so that he's not under-costed or overpowered. I would love to use this with Maul! 2nd (2pts): CorellianComedianVery nice! You've managed to perfectly capture the Vader feel in this piece without having to charge an arm and a leg for him! I like what you've chosen for his abilities/force powers. All of them are useful and fit the piece. I specifically like "Dark Armor" I always like using pieces that can reduce damage. He is the perfect "Darth Vader, Agent of the Lite Side"  Well made. 1st (3pts): Kamikaze13This is awesome! Abilities fit him well, and for 21 points, this guy would TOTALLY be worth bringing into a squad! I love "Momentum" and "Regeneration 10"! Well done keeping him awesome but still cheap! Good job all! Tough decision.
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1st: spryguy1981
2nd: jak
3rd: donnyrides
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1st Place: Savage Opress, Maul's Apprentice by donnyrides: This piece is brilliant. This is exactly what I was thinking of when I was posted the goal for this week's contest. This piece captures Savage's all-out aggression at the budget-friendly cost of 25. 2nd Place: Master Mace Windu by >Jase<: Love this one too. He really feels like Mace despite being almost 40 points cheaper than the next cheapest 'normal' Mace. Might be undercosted, but you have to really build around him to abuse him. LS Flurry with Flurry Attack was an excellent call. 3rd Place: Anakin Skywalker, Apprentice by Lafcadio: This is what awesomeness looks like. When I first saw the statline, I was thinking "Yeah, that's nice and all for a Padawan Anakin, but who would use a Jedi with 15 defense?" But his abilities balance it out so perfectly. Synergy with Obi-Wan, Sith Rage, Impulsive Savagery, it all works together so beautifully. This thing has more flavor than a Subway BMT on wheat. Squint, Troubled Apprentice by spryguy1981: A very nice representation of him. Don't know a whole lot about Squint myself, but I like the options: he's got a solid Lightsaber Assault going with 60 potential damage, or he can go for a big 50 damage hit instead if the situation is right. He's an excellent throw-in for Jedi Exile squads - with Revan, he can Ambush for a whopping 100 damage (at a total of +14 Attack). But he's not overpowered by any means - and you totally get brownie points for adding that he counts as Malak  Durge, Bounty Hunter by Kamikaze13: Another excellent redux. He's got some great stuff on him, but he's not nearly as day-ruining as the Clone Wars variant. Energy Bola is great - this is the perfect price range of piece to have an ability like that. I also like the cost, he's just slightly too good to be a Lobot option. NightBrother by jak: This is a really good piece! Again, exactly what I was thinking of for a non-Unique redux. Also props for being the only non-Unique in the contest. The flavor is spot-on, Deadly Attack usually seems like a weird afterthought on most pieces but it fits perfectly here. Parry is a nice touch too - I'd spam them with Talon, if I had any thought my opponent had melee pieces. Also, you get the award for best introductory statement: jak wrote:This custom is a winner!
Tastes great, and is less filling! Young Boba, Clone Punk by surf_rider56: ... ... there are no words... this is hilarious. Best 5-point piece I've ever seen! I think "I'm still a Fett" needs to be a real ability. I've done a lot of honorable mention this post already, but this piece officially wins the CorellianComedian Medal of Hilarity. I think that's all that needs to be said in summarizing the piece Great job guys! Those were some awesome pieces!
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1st JASE - Mace - I'm happy you put LS flurry back in. I've already started building a squad I would use with him and posted it on the comments section of the piece. He looks like a lot of fun and would get a ton of play. 2nd Jak - Nightbrother - I really like this piece. I think the nightsister/brother sub faction could use some more minion type pieces. I would ditch renew however and let the nightsister synergy provide it instead. 3rd Lafcadio - Ani apprentice - I think the stats could have been higher but this is great piece to introduce new players to synergy and combos without breaking the bank and using characters people know really well to get them excited about playing. In all I liked this challenge because it is a great way to push the breaks a little and go back to a time when the game was in my favorite state of 100 and 150 point squads being the normal. You could sneak some of these easy to use guys in with some quality synergy and produce a very fun game without having some of the overblown minmax nonsense going on like we see sometimes in the 200 limit. Great suggestion for a weekly challenge!! Spryguy I wish you would have used your original Malik. It was awesome and priced to play. Had great light and shade with itself and would have been my #1 choice. It would have been right in there with darth nihl, hand of krayt that already exists and is awesome.
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Dang Donny haha, I let Surf influence my decision too much lol.
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spryguy1981 wrote:Dang Donny haha, I let Surf influence my decision too much lol. And I said, use what You want, not what I want you to .... don't be blaming me  I just wanted you to think; that's All my comments are for .... 
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I feel like I'm stepping into quicksand again, yet if you're asking me to judge what I see, I've always gone cost first. Maybe I'm just too serious about my stat/card making hobby (Yes I can say that with a straight face even after producing "Young Boba, Clone Punk." We all know what a character should "feel" like so I can't fault anybody there; they all "feel" like a representation of their characters. But the costs ... lots of people are praising certain pieces costs and while some are correctly and well costed, some of them jusy aren't. Nobody elected me cost monitor ( and I wouldn't be caught Dead doing it) but if you're asking an opinion, its part of the package.
CC - Darth Vader, Agent of the Dark Side
Slightly undercosted; First thing I asked myself when I saw this guy was "At what point in SW history is this guy from; couldn't tell. I'm not sure if this guy could take Any version of a Republic Jedi Master, so in that respect he doesn't seem Vader-ish at all. He's the "Chosen One" and unless Rage is blinding him (and creating vulnerabilities) he should be able to take out all Jedi Knights and a pretty large number of Masters. Except for the Dark Armor, you couldn't tell it was Vader.
If this is what you meant by a "Lite" version I must confess CC I didn't get the meaning whatsoever and I apologize.
donnyrides - Savage Opress, Maul's Apprentice
I costed him at 40, so I'm not sure what to say. He was at 27 before I gave him SA's and FP's. I think the simple jump from Double to Twin is what cost him a good 2-3 increase; the jump from 4 abilities to 5 adds on 5-7 pts. alone depending on what they are.
As for the piece, Rage makes him Opress, but Savage, without Maul present, might have made him more so. Still a nice enough piece, but waaay undercosted.
FYI on the JWM - as has been discussed to death, he was Massively undercosted; Without FP's, he was 26; add on those 5 lightsaber abilities, he's 46
Jase - Master Mace Windu
I'm not a math guy by Any stretch of the imagination; I suck at algebra; not sure I'd graduate from college in this day and age's math requirement's, but I Do know the Excel program I use to figure out costing of Mini's has been used/tested by dozens of people, worked on by people who know math and Excel, and it's been accurate 99% of the time over thousands of mini's tested. I've also studied what happens when you make certain jumps, say from 4 to 5 abilities, from 8 to 9 abilities etc. and it just Jumps the costs. Mace as-is costed 39. He cost 25 on his base stats alone with no abilities/powers.
Is it Mace? Sure, with Use the Force and of course Vaapad. You might have gotten away with 34; everybody can argue a piece +/- 5 pts. But 24 is just too much .....
Kamikaze13 - Durge, Bounty Hunter
Almost spot-on with costing. Durge before being a Separatist; Great idea. This definitely is a different version, not quite the juggernaut he becomes later. I like! (Minor quibble as a teacher, shouldn't bola be capitalized?)
Lafcadio - Anakin Skywalker, Apprentice
Again, almost spot-on costing. The flavor explains the Exact moment this Anakin exits and the abilities perfectly match that. Excellant piece Laf!
spryguy1981 - Squint, Troubled Apprentice
Nice idea; gutsy move giving him no upfront multiple attacks. Costed about right too. Dark Temptation is always tricky. I'm not enough of a risk taker to ever use it, but then that's why its called Dark Temptation!
Jak - Nightbrother
Costed about right. Surprised no ones ever done this before. Good idea. Not sure thematically I'd agree with Parry. I would think they'd be Just untrained/rough around the edges enough that they couldn't be good enough to Parry; Evade would be more believable but obviously wouldn't help with your idea of a melee defense .....
I had a heck of a time deciding 2nd and 3rd but ....
My Vote
Lafcadio - 1st Place. Great Piece!
Kamikaze12 - 2nd Place. By a nose because it's never been done before.
spryguy1981 - 3rd Place. Could've gone either way and I hate ties.
Honorable mention - jak. The Parry ability just bugged me enough thematically that it kept it out of a threeway fight for 2nd-3rd.
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I don't know how you got your scoring guide metrics but you must not take into account other pieces already in the same faction and I don't think it takes into account negatives very well nor does it take into account being unique or being fringe or being common through very rare or just plain old fashion power creep. The major problem is that your program must be scoring on what the piece has and not what it doesn't have.
I will use Jase's Windu for example. Using this Mace means you can't use a more powerful mace. This is the negative of Unique. It doesn't have a way to protect itself against melee hits, yet it is a melee itself with 90 HP and could be killed by most any major piece within one round. Attack and defense are both right on average with like republic force users. He doesn't have renew so once the 3 FP are gone, he is in trouble. Yes, if using the SWM:CE guide it is about 39, but there is more to think about when making pieces for the full blown SWM 200 points per squad game. If I had to cost him, I think 29 would be about good to make him usable over similar pieces and fun to use.
Recosting my own Savage with his negatives and reliance on others I probably could tack on another 4 or 5 points but why. He would be fun to use and not a tournament piece so it's just a piece that has a set role and is for fun
I would really like a copy of your cost metrics and whatever you use to make your cards. If the metrics spread sheet is effective, you could post it so everybody uses it.
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@ Donny
You can't "penalize" the costing of one piece over another. Yes something may be unique, but since its your decision as a player which piece or version you use, that's on you. "Power Creep" and every negative ability is impossible to predict its effect or its negativity when working with something else; You can come close and use your best judgment.
Now, don't get me wrong. anybody who'd played only with the WOTC pieces can tell you the V-Setters have gone into realms where WOTC never ventured. V-Sets didn't invent Power Creep, they just took it to newer and newer levels. Camaraderie didn't exist and WOTC had a whopping 12 pieces with synergy.
Yes, there's a difference in making a fun piece and a tournament piece. Unless otherwise stated, I've always, unless its obvious, taken everything seriously.
As to the Excel program, I actually had a thread about three weeks ago where I asked if anybody who knew math/Excel would help update; the last "update" was Jedi Academy in 2009. No one answered. Yet, again, using Best Judgment, its always correct +/- 5 pts.
Since its obviously out of date, I've been using, again, best judgment taking in everything into account, synergies, +/- and as many variables as I can think of. Is it perfect? No Am I perfect? God No. But for the last 8-9 years I've hammered this out with dozens of people and everyone's agreed that as long as you follow some simple guidelines, the excel works. I'd be happy to ship it to you and if you're a math wiz, happier if you'd help update it.
Peace
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Just gotta say I appreciate the honest feedback from all of you. We all definitely have different views on different costing/designing philosophies, but that's part of why this is so great - we get feedback from a rather wide audience for only having 7-9 members at any given time.
@Surf: That actually was what I was going for with 'lite' - I should have put it this way to start with, but my thought process was along the lines of "What if the game had been costed differently, and 20 points was the range for competent beatsticks? What if 35 points was EPIC-level?" But no worries - the "early career" versions of characters were pretty awesome too.
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CorellianComedian wrote:Just gotta say I appreciate the honest feedback from all of you. We all definitely have different views on different costing/designing philosophies, but that's part of why this is so great - we get feedback from a rather wide audience for only having 7-9 members at any given time.
@Surf: That actually was what I was going for with 'lite' - I should have put it this way to start with, but my thought process was along the lines of "What if the game had been costed differently, and 20 points was the range for competent beatsticks? What if 35 points was EPIC-level?" But no worries - the "early career" versions of characters were pretty awesome too. My favorite characters are between 7 and 37 pts. I hate going over 45, and yes I immediately thought "Younger" versions of everybody; I couldn't go any younger than a 5-6 year old Boba
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I'm pretty handy with excel. I would love to see what you are using. Have you seen the swm:CE rule book? It a rpg style game that let's you build your own character and gives point growth per added ability. I use it as a rough estimate along with comparing like pieces and possible CE combos.
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donnyrides wrote:I'm pretty handy with excel. I would love to see what you are using. Have you seen the swm:CE rule book? It a rpg style game that let's you build your own character and gives point growth per added ability. I use it as a rough estimate along with comparing like pieces and possible CE combos. Bloo Mail has been wonky lately. If you can, send me your email address through there. I'd love help modernizing that ol Excel program. Its actually quite handy. I vaguely remember people talking about that RPG conversion years ago although I can't remember if it was here or WOTC.
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@ TheHutt and Naarkon
I tried sending you an email when you were both at my thread but Bloo Mail is being weird again; wanted to ask you guys if you had any thoughts about my thread/cards.
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donnyrides wrote:Donnyjunk@yahoo.com
Excel sent; unlike a certain guy who loves to go at the V-Setters and basically believes his opinion is the only right one, I have no problem listening to people tell me "You're an Idiot" and then explain why. Fixing/updating this is more important than any pride my grandkids haven't beaten out of me.
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surf_rider56 wrote:@ TheHutt and Naarkon
I tried sending you an email when you were both at my thread but Bloo Mail is being weird again; wanted to ask you guys if you had any thoughts about my thread/cards. I think your cards are generally about right or conservatively costed. I don't normally see anything that I think is dramatically under-costed.
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TheHutts wrote:surf_rider56 wrote:@ TheHutt and Naarkon
I tried sending you an email when you were both at my thread but Bloo Mail is being weird again; wanted to ask you guys if you had any thoughts about my thread/cards. I think your cards are generally about right or conservatively costed. I don't normally see anything that I think is dramatically under-costed. Thanks. Have you noticed any cards with good/bad ideas in particular?
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totally missed this due to work. heres what i wouldve done. http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/25561/bane
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Jase & jak haven't voted yet. Whats up guys?
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