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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 9/19/2008 Posts: 1,740 Location: Orange County, CA
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blemelisk wrote:Question. For instance the Rebel Cell Ability. Would the ability not cost more than an equivalent Commander Affect? (since commander affects can be countered specifically, while SAs such as Rebel Cell cant be).
Note: Im not questioning the SA you have given it, I am only questioning the SA compared to what might normally be a CA and the cost between the two).
Just trying to learn more!
Thanks! Again, asking Donny about the "math" part of it would get you a better answer than my guess. I've noticed that when I add a CE I just treat it as an expensive SA. The scary part is there are actually several thresholds, point-wise. Another is around 42-43 and another in the upper 50's. I so rarely go there I can't remember ... The costing calculator I use goes haywire after 70 or so ... just like a broken piece its mostly guesswork after that .... While I've never gone down the list of SA's, I've almost never seen anything more expensive that a 5; I say almost because I could almost swear I saw something as a 6 or 8 once a few years ago ... but I'm not sure and it may have had a few beers involved ........ FYI - I didn't create the Excel cost calculator I use. A blessed lost soul from the ancient WOTC forum days created it. I "acquired" it around 07-08, tried a few changes myself and then Donny helped me redo some of the "Broken" parts last year.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/22/2011 Posts: 593
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By making the characters stats crap you free up points for abilities. Also by putting a range to his CE work around, he limits the cost of the ability and handing out relatively weak abilities, he further keeps points down. It's a great CE-less commander. I think by trying to stay within thresholds the piece is kind of weak for 24 points without knowing what Ryloth Rebel Cell is or could turn into. Synergy is the best asset I see on the card because if played with twilek BSVs and Talon and cz scientist, you get some really hard hitting Oppro+20 shots For the piece itself, I would use 24 as my guide, then assess what could be and cost from there. I think to make it more playable, I'd cost it at about 20 or 21. Costing it that much higher than Twilek BSV is a bad idea. But this is only one man's opinion. Also consider that the TBSV is maybe one of the most undercosted pieces ever made. By the calculator TBSV should cost around 28 to 30 instead of 18.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 9/19/2008 Posts: 1,740 Location: Orange County, CA
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donnyrides wrote: For the piece itself, I would use 24 as my guide, then assess what could be and cost from there. I think to make it more playable, I'd cost it at about 20 or 21. Costing it that much higher than Twilek BSV is a bad idea. But this is only one man's opinion. Also consider that the TBSV is maybe one of the most undercosted pieces ever made. By the calculator TBSV should cost around 28 to 30 instead of 18. It actually came out about 22, but Rebel Cell being the great unknown, I penalized myself 2 more to make it 24 donnyrides wrote:By making the characters stats crap you free up points for abilities. Also by putting a range to his CE work around, he limits the cost of the ability and handing out relatively weak abilities, he further keeps points down. FYI - much better description of why things work that way , better than my poor attempts at explaining it
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/19/2010 Posts: 1,029
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Surf I really think Rebel Cell needs a rewording, it's just weird being like a CE, but yet granting itself to other Twi'leks, why not just make the benefits last until end of skirmish.
Something like Until the end of the skirmish, non-Unique characters whose name contains Twi'lek, gain Grenades 10 and independent outfit. Aliied Twi'lek characters count as both Fringe and Rebel factions for the purpose of Commander Effects.
Which in that case you probably wouldn't need to grant independent outfit
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 9/19/2008 Posts: 1,740 Location: Orange County, CA
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Lord_Ball wrote:Surf I really think Rebel Cell needs a rewording, it's just weird being like a CE, but yet granting itself to other Twi'leks, why not just make the benefits last until end of skirmish.
Something like Until the end of the skirmish, non-Unique characters whose name contains Twi'lek, gain Grenades 10 and independent outfit. Aliied Twi'lek characters count as both Fringe and Rebel factions for the purpose of Commander Effects.
Which in that case you probably wouldn't need to grant independent outfit Interestingly enough, since I was a little put off by the wording myself, I'd actually reworded it last night ..... Is it "elegant?" Heck no, but it is a tad cleaner which is good enough for me. If I was good at this, I'd be a V-Setter PS - As has been said, I could have added Camaraderie and gotten around the No CE in any number of ways (and eliminated Ind. Outfit,) but I wanted to "penalize" myself by using Ind. Outfit as a Separate SA and going the full 5 SA's. The way I've worded it, any future Twi'leks that Aren't Rebel or Fringe will also benefit; and I think I've got a few of my cards that are other factions ....
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 11/1/2014 Posts: 192
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 11/1/2014 Posts: 192
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1. Kamikaze13
2. Spryguy
3. Blemelisk
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 9/19/2008 Posts: 1,740 Location: Orange County, CA
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Of the top of my head ….. I’ll sleep on it ……
AlextheGreat Twi'lek Rebel Scout - Interesting piece with some interesting combo’s. My only gripe is, as usual, you undervalued it; your cost 18/mine 25.
Kamikaze GenoHaradan Saboteur - a -4 to saves vs 14 to Defense. Hmmm tough decision but interesting. With an ensnared enemy, does that make Mines 20 a 15 to save? And if you Flash Grenade them is its 19 to save, does that stack?? That may be a bit much if it does. Interesting idea. I costed it at 20; hard to figure Flash + ensnare costs, especially combined.
donny Twi'lek Assassin Rear Attack is tricky to cost. Fascinating idea and I wonder how tricky it is to position …. Costed close enough to not be worth arguing over.
GG Order 66 Jedi Padawan Survivor - I got him at 15, but Padawan is tough to cost nad cost could just as easily be 12-13 which would make it a non-issue … and I still think Cloaked is a tough act to sell for a Padawan, but that’s just me
blemelisk Twi'lek Double Agent. Still 29 points and undercosted. Not sure why she’s a Double Aagent. Betrayal would have been a better choice if you really wanted to make her a real Double Agent. Name wise, if you want to talk the talk ….
Lord Ball Twi'lek Con Artist - You called her a Con Artist yet you didn’t go with the ability; like blem maybe a Betrayal ability? Cost wise, you’ll have to ask donny; I had her at 15 without Bombad, with she jumpe to 25 …. hmmm. But like Double Agent, Con Artist seems misnamed and a bait/switch as you yourself mentioned
spry Galactic Alliance Deep Cover Operative - Con & Double Aagent are hard to cost, but I had her at 23 Before adding in the other two …. Con Artist seems to be the Flavor of the week … and a pricey one at that ….. with out Con it would have been 25. The names very fun, butt the abilities, especially Con just don’t seem to match, for me at least….
sithbot Costed him at 12 which is probably close enough, penalty for his potential if nothing else. Lots of possibilities with this girl.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 2/17/2017 Posts: 237
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1: Spryguy: I liked the abilities this char had, I could def see her being a deep operative and the abilities you gave her make her one 2: Lord_Ball: you def made a Con Artist with the abilities etc that you made. 3: Alex: you have basically created what I think is a very Rebel character. Though at first the synergy got me put off a bit at first, but then I could see this char being in a squad of scouts (as generally rebels are better in groups that work from each others strengths). As well as iirc Imperial scouts having a new commander i could have sworn i saw somewhere, may have just been a random custom. I like it. 3.5: Sithbot: I want to see more mobile attack characters with tactical shot, that is a dang good combo. 4: Surf: You def made a rebel cell leader, and ...for whatever reason you did it without a CE (which was part of your own rules). The thing is, is that you DID give the character a CE, not only is it a CE it is a pretty complex and multiple part CE that you simply made into 2 SAs. Rebel Cell and the Synergy are both in my opinion CEs. With either one being made into a CE would have been fine (outside of the rules of this contest, but fine as a design choice) with the other staying an SA would be fine in my book. It just seems that if you are going to make a CE into an SA to get around Disruptive etc, then there will soon be a new SA that prevents those SAs as well, and then what is the point? The bottom line is, I actually like this character and what she does (it is why I am mentioning her here), I simply dont like 2 SAs that at least one should have been a CE. Please understand this isnt an attack and is just my opinion when it comes to character design Cheers! 5: my piece: Im not actually voting for it as it seems to be taboo to vote for your own piece and im 100% behind that, but I wanted to try to explain why I chose what I chose for this character, something I should have done earlier this week but time got away from me. It's a Trap and override was the evidence she was a double agent. Betrayal would mean another piece betrayed its side, not the double agent. This piece betrays who has stealth and has the ability to override doors (i.e. knows the codes to them) for one side but not the other (though she can be in an imperial squad as well). She also has a decent chance to hit as well as damage something. But Betrayal wasnt the thing I was thinking about, I did have in mind an ability that would make her switch sides after some sort of trigger, but with the way she is built she is an effective agent for both sides (rebel and imperial) that reveals (thus removes) stealth from characters waiting in ambush, and has the codes to the doors to open and close them with override. For this reason she is a double agent, not because she has others betray their side, but because she has betrayed her opponent, for the cause of her choice (rebel or imperial)
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 2/16/2009 Posts: 1,485
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1. Blemelisk very cool take on the piece 2. Sithbot another cool take 3. GG very flavorful piece.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 4/19/2010 Posts: 1,029
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1 Sithbot 2 GG 3 Blemelisk surf_rider56 wrote: Lord Ball Twi'lek Con Artist - You called her a Con Artist yet you didn’t go with the ability; like blem maybe a Betrayal ability? Cost wise, you’ll have to ask donny; I had her at 15 without Bombad, with she jumpe to 25 …. hmmm. But like Double Agent, Con Artist seems misnamed and a bait/switch as you yourself mentioned
It's not the first time a character had a subname of an ability but didn't have that ability [*cough*]Grievous, Jedi Hunter [*cough*] As for cost, She is kind of like a Fringe Jar Jar (who's 16 points), but her lower HP/Def and the negative ability Untrustworthy certainly help to bring the cost down, maybe a slightly bit undercosted still but I wouldn't think egregiously so.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 10/26/2010 Posts: 530
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1st: donnyrides
2nd: spryguy1981
3rd: SithBot
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 10/26/2010 Posts: 530
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surf_rider56 wrote:Kamikaze GenoHaradan Saboteur - a -4 to saves vs 14 to Defense. Hmmm tough decision but interesting. With an ensnared enemy, does that make Mines 20 a 15 to save? And if you Flash Grenade them is its 19 to save, does that stack?? That may be a bit much if it does. Interesting idea. I costed it at 20; hard to figure Flash + ensnare costs, especially combined. It shouldn't stack, so Mines and Flash Grenade would both be a save of 15.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/8/2010 Posts: 3,623
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1. Alex, great execution of a seasoned scout here
2. Blemilisk, another awesome representation!
3. Surf, still not sure about the rebel cell ability but your reasoning is sound and it's a sweet design
I'm not going to lie, it was super hard to choose between everyone's this week and wish I could have given a first place to everyone. Man some out-side the box designs here! Great job!
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 11/1/2014 Posts: 192
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Looks like we have a tie
Spryguy and Blemelisk
which is cool since Spryguy gave Blemelisk 3 pts and Blemelisk gave Spryguy 3 points.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 2/17/2017 Posts: 237
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Ill wait just in case someone has yet to vote etc. I guess with a tie Spry and I collaborate to create next weeks CCC?
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 2/16/2009 Posts: 1,485
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Voting window has passed technically So we should collaborate on the new week lol.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 2/17/2017 Posts: 237
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sent ya a blumail :)
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member Groups: Member
Joined: 1/8/2010 Posts: 3,623
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Nice work guys! Couldn't have happened better this week
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