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Designs to counter WOTC staples and move the meta
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20.000000
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Open design that allows options in squad building
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8
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80.000000
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More power 10 pieces to match staples
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0
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0.000000
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Power 10 pieces to replace staples
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0
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0.000000
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Casual options for the tier 1.5 player
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0
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0.000000
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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The competitive Meta is at a great place. More power 10 pieces for the sake of keeping things fresh is a foolish idea. The fact that characters like Heineken haven't been replaced is a blessing, not a curse...
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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The game is withering lettuce.
I, for one, think the time for renewal is at hand. The stage has been set by some quality power 8 pieces. It is time to shift away from Dodonna, Ganner, Thrawn, Daala, Panaka, R2-D2, Kybuck, Rieekan, Kelborn, Vindicated, Ozzel, etc.
I think all these are Vset 6 or before.
The game has to move somewhere. Power 8 pieces do not do that. How many people are going to bring OR to a competitive realm? I think Vodo helps, but just like Ven Zallow (who I feel is awesome and a Power 8.5 piece), it will not shift meta.
Is anyone else tired of Rebels and Imperials having their way? or am I just alone in thinking that seeing the same opponents year after year is, to quote Batman from a youtube video, "white bread".
I was play testing a ton for this past set and when I tried to make a tier 1 squad it was all the same stuff.
So, most people answered open design that allows options in squad building. I guess I should have asked the question... is that options for the casual player or options for the competitive player?
I meant it for the competitive realm. Right now the way to have the most fun in this game is to play casually. Which is not right. Why do you think people brought such weird squads to gencon last year? well probably because they wanted something other than white bread...
Competitive realm that does not move anywhere becomes stale is my point. Time to renew it and the framework is all already there, the power 8.5 pieces are there for the support. Just think about one Power 9.5 melee piece in OR. You can play it with bastila than from there you go to the options of Vima, Vodo, Ven, Satele, Atton, Thon, OR Senator, Army of light Jedi Lord are all top quality pieces. Covenant Defender is powerful as well. Satele being a power 8.5-9.5 piece. Atton being a power 9 piece and others being power 8-8.5 pieces. It is wonderful to have those options. Than there are a few support options like OR Senator, Arca, Holocron, the new droid, etc. I dont know if there would be 1 best squad in there, the play is different.
Think about NR, we just made a power 8-8.5 piece in Kol Skywalker. He is cool. But Deaths_Baine is right in saying that it did not really help the competitive realm yet... If we make a power 9.5 piece that works with him he can be an option, but NR has potential to be fun. but right now it kind of has no identity other than lets use Ganner...
Than we have the Mandalorians... Kelborn and Vindicated are auto includes in every Mando competitive 1 squad I have ever seen recently.... like ever...
Mandos have quite a bit to offer, I mean they have been around since Old Republic times all the way to NR.
and we have cool flying jet packs Mandos of Star Wars Rebels as well. Lets make a power 9 non-unique flying, mobile Mando that allows another option other than Kelborn and Vindicated.
All I am saying is that the stage is set for some new options in the competitive realm and we have a good chance of merging the casual players with the competitive players.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Joined: 8/30/2014
Posts: 1,055
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I totally agree that the game would become stale if it doesn't move anywhere. The thing is, the ratio of new pieces to players seems to be favoring pieces right now. I'm backlogged to set 11 with squads with I want to try out. Maybe more competitive players than I are keeping up with what's Tier 1 and what isn't, but for me there are so many powerful options I haven't tried yet that we could stop making v-sets right now and it'd be two years before I got bored. I bet there are still 30 new squads out there that Urbanjedi could crush regionals with.
That said, I am all in favor of new pieces that challenge the old meta. However, the logical fact of the matter is that the only way to replace overpowered pieces is with more overpowered pieces.
And I would very cautiously ask - as someone who was not here at the time - isn't this how Daala happened? Wanting to keep the game fresh is awesome! Wanting to dethrone the old meta-defining pieces is a noble goal. But, I think I would prefer the slow advance they have going right now. For me, the best way to keep the game fresh is to do what they have been doing - filling the game with Power 8-9 pieces. There are so many options right now, I think the meta is nice and wide even though the old best pieces are still here. With the fun aspect in mind, I think the game is in a great place both competitively and casually.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Oh, and one last point just to throw out there: Are we okay with totally leaving WotC behind? I can't remember who brought it up, but it was a big discussion point a couple of years ago. The only WotC pieces that have really kept up are either ubiquitous tech pieces like Uggie Demos and Mice, or else the Tier 1 faction-defining pieces like Thrawn and Dodonna.
Not saying we should or shouldn't; just wanted to mention that it is a logical consequence of ousting the power pieces.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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^^ I do want to say that I am almost in agreement with you. And using urbanjedi is not fair... its the same with Deaths_Baine, he makes things like Imperial Knights tier 1.25 for crying out loud. I just think that Power 8 and Power 9 pieces just cannot combat the power 10 WOTC pieces. I mean c'mon. there are some that are going to be around for eternity unless something is done. Like r2-d2 the worse piece ever (even more than r7). Mas Amedda Dodonna they will be around FOR ALL TIME unless a power 9.5 counter comes out. You can never replace tow cable. but if a good counter came around it would help. How can you make a Dodonna as good as he is now? you cant you have to counter him. Same with Amedda. Ballistic rocket that shoots at flying objects within 6 squares that has emplacement hahaha that would be amazing. screw you R2-D2. that's what I would do. HAHAHA bring in two with Lobot. http://www.bloomilk.com/Custom/30708/turret-defense
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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Oh and as far as getting away from WOTC...
We are already gone in about every piece besides what 15-20?
And the ones left over create the most problems.
Rafiki from The Lion King "It is time"
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Rank: Moderator
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Joined: 1/30/2009
Posts: 6,457
Location: Southern Illinois
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Well, there are pieces that limit board-wide CEs to 6 squares. I'm not the guy to comment on how playable they are competitively, but they exist now. By some others' analysis, Tier 1.5 can beat Tier 1 depending on match-ups, so expanding 1.5 seems good (more possible tough match-ups for T1).
Per the last poll question, do 'casual' players typically build squads that close to winning high-level tournaments?
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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I did ^^^
Sidious Mastermind, Lothal, Kylo Ren, Dr. E, Ponda Baba, ugnaughts
Tier 1.5 for a vassal regional.
Casual tier 1.5 is the most fun way to play right now imo. but once someone gets serious it doesn't hold up.
EDIT:
you can throw together some stuff and make it tier 1.5.
Think of Mace Windu and Obi-Kin. it is tier 1.5
Or throw some Jedi together in OR for some tier 1.5 fun (Including Vodo and Ven)
or in Separatist you can throw some Cad Bane BH together and get a tier 1.5 squad going. or some Whorm and some pieces like Nico and a few others.
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Rank: Moderator
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Joined: 1/30/2009
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jen'ari wrote:I did ^^^
Sidious Mastermind, Lothal, Kylo Ren, Dr. E, Ponda Baba, ugnaughts
Tier 1.5 for a vassal regional.
Casual tier 1.5 is the most fun way to play right now imo. but once someone gets serious it doesn't hold up.
EDIT:
you can throw together some stuff and make it tier 1.5.
Think of Mace Windu and Obi-Kin. it is tier 1.5
Or throw some Jedi together in OR for some tier 1.5 fun (Including Vodo and Ven)
or in Separatist you can throw some Cad Bane BH together and get a tier 1.5 squad going. or some Whorm and some pieces like Nico and a few others.
That's fair, but not my personal definition of casual 'competition'. (just a different viewpoint) Also, I know you know this, but some players are just Tier 1 all on their own, lol.
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Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
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^^^^ including TINT, Urbanjedi, and Deaths_Baine
I guess my overall feelings on the subject are thus:
The game has been going to a good place. WOTC left us with some NPE's that are getting old and stale.
We should all trust the members of the PT committee to do what is right and the balance committee to act swiftly on things they might miss or overlook.
Because of the above (honest work and learning from the past) and because we are so close to open squad design (its super open for tier 1.5) in the top tier we can make a push with a few Power 9.5 - 10 pieces that shift the meta in some new direction.
That direction should move us away from some of the auto includes that WOTC and V-Sets 1-6 gave us.
Some of the WOTC stuff will need faction specific counters on very aggressive costed pieces. Tow Cable, Dodonna, Thrawn, Mas Amedda, Daala are the biggest ones imo.
Or even just making Bastila and the OR tier 1 would be a great first start!
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