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Poll Question : What Should Be Done With ! Ratings On Squads? (Poll is closed)
Choice Votes Statistics
Yes, I Like These Idea's & Think This Would Work! 42 71.186440 %
No, I Dont Like These Idea's So Leave It As Is! 8 13.559322 %
I am not sure on what to do! 5 8.474576 %
There Is Different Ways To Go & Different Idea's! 4 6.779661 %

A Poll On Stopping 1 Rating No Comments Options
Opan Windu
Posted: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 6:57:36 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 7/16/2008
Posts: 64
Location: Tennessee
If you change it we will just get new problems. I vote to leave it alone, if you don't want ones then don't make you squades public.
Mandalore Da Beast
Posted: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:54:00 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 7/6/2009
Posts: 1,632
Location: Desintegrating some Djem So Sucka!
i hate to say it, but Opan is right. people will always find a way to screw you, no matter what.
Omnus
Posted: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 8:38:24 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/16/2008
Posts: 344
Opan Windu wrote:
If you change it we will just get new problems. I vote to leave it alone, if you don't want ones then don't make you squades public.


Even if you can't make it perfect, we can still try to make it better.
Del Muerte
Posted: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:32:44 AM
Rank: Acklay
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/6/2008
Posts: 49
Maybe letting people hide the creators name as a option. Just put created by anonymous or such. That may help, not solve, any voting wars.
StevenO
Posted: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:05:16 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 2/4/2009
Posts: 303
I maybe haven't rated many squads or even played many serious games but a big reason I can see for "hate rating" with 1s is to counter a bunch of stary eyed 10s which some hand out like candy. Rating your own squad with a 10 is also a completely wasted rating.

Is there a guideline anywhere about what the various numbers are supposed to mean? As far as I'm concerned rating things from 1 to 10 is far too open for interpretation because shouldn't that means the average squad gets rated a 5?

Personally, I think a 1 to 5 rating system with some guidelines would be a better idea. It may not have the range that 1 to 10 produces but as a whole I think it would actually be more accurate. I'd see rating as something like this:

5: Squad should win many games against a variety of opponents.
4: A good squad which could win many games but does have some big weaknesses or other holes.
3: A competent squad. One that may be good thematically and/or fun to run some time when winning isn't everything. This should probably be the highest rating for some purely gimmick squads which may put a smile on your face but which really have no chance at winning.
2: A squad that may work but has some big problems with it. These are possibly the ones which could use comments on how to improve them the most.
1: Rubbish. Something so bad you probably have to try to make it that bad. Such squads should probably have pieces that work against each other such that actually winning with the band would be like winning the lottery. This is maybe what the first squad you could have assembled looked like because that is all you had in that faction to fill the squad.

Now I'd probably expect the average rating to be something between 3 and 4 due to the nature of who probably posts squads here but as a whole it would probably be mor accurate.

One other thing about ratings is that if changes are made to a squad's core (none reserve/reinforcement) pieces, or perhaps say 20% of the points are altered, then all ratings for a squad would be dropped. This only makes sense because as thing change then ratings should change.
Mickey
Posted: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:33:49 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 2/9/2009
Posts: 936
Location: Southern Illinois
I think a 1-5 would work better but that would require most likely an overhaul of the current system. I was told awhile back wiping the ratings and starting over would not be acceptable. Personally I think it deserves a wipe and reboot. That is if it is important to so many people that the system is fair. I find it more an inconvience than anything because the current ratings are virtually pointless in trying to find a decent squad to rip off LOL
EmporerDragon
Posted: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 1:10:00 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 12/26/2008
Posts: 2,115
Location: Watertown, SD
I personally think having subratings would be good, something similar to how Newgrounds has it.

Something like

Competitiveness:
Theme:
Fun:
Originality:
Overall:
mrroboto1968
Posted: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 2:40:51 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 3/28/2009
Posts: 78
Location: moline illinois
how a squad is rated should be done on the basis of how good it is and how well different pieces work together.
dont give a squad a good rating just because you made it or you made it with a piece that wizards finally made that you love.
i dont know a darn thing about squad building,i admit i use squads that others have made and if i am skilled enough to play the squad in a way that will give me the win i will gladly share my excitement of that victory with others.
but if i play a squad poorly and i lose the game i will not blame the person that built the squad because the person that built the squad was not the person playing the game,i was.
and i will not come up with every excuse i can think of as to why i got my butt whipped in a game,other than "i got my butt whipped" fair and square.
i will try to figure out where i went wrong so i can avoid the same mistakes in the future.

Mickey
Posted: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 3:07:35 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 2/9/2009
Posts: 936
Location: Southern Illinois
I personally don't think a person should be able to rate their own squad or use an account on the same isp. Let's face it. If you made the squad you think it's the best Wink
Del Muerte
Posted: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:23:33 PM
Rank: Acklay
Groups: Member

Joined: 11/6/2008
Posts: 49
Here's the some of the bases on how I rate squads.
All squads start at a 5, meaning in order to go lower than a 5 you did something wrong.
A 6 means the squad has something going for it, be it a gimmick or character synergies.
A 7 means that the squad will hold itself up vs other "classic" competitive squads. Doesn't mean it will win, but it will end in a good game. Cookie cutter ratings ends here.

Then enter the mods, stuff like:
Using something different from the norm, effectively.
Having wasted points, be a bad figure or not using CE to full effect etc
Covering all the basics(door control, movement breaker, good range defense ...)
Context mods, aka is it a competitive squad, or using a different construction rules
Is it over 200 points, I judge much hard when this happen as you can really make some sick squads at point cost.
Is it a one trick pony.
Enough offense and defense.
...

Then the most important, judging it vs itself. This lets you vote that great Reven squad high even thou it has no chance vs a rebel speeder squad. The best Revan squad should get a high rating, it the best at what it is.

PS I haven't rated a squad a 10 yet. When I find that perfect squad I tell you.

tereusthegreat
Posted: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 10:13:52 PM
Rank: Hailfire Droid
Groups: Member

Joined: 1/8/2009
Posts: 34
If the top players don't leave comments on the weakness in a sqaud then the lower level players will never improve... It's good for the game to help the kiddies get better because we all want this game to get bigger and more wide spread... To do that we need to give help to the new players not just say they suck with no reason, because when there start quoting where will our game be? If they don't want to here what you have to say then just say that it's just what you think... It's not hard, I post on here to get some new ideas because we have a small play group but we all have done well in other formats like hero clix and Mage night... This is a great tool for all of us to use if everyone want it to be...
tereusthegreat
Posted: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 10:44:30 PM
Rank: Hailfire Droid
Groups: Member

Joined: 1/8/2009
Posts: 34
quiting not quoing phone picks words out of me sometimes...
Darth Percocet
Posted: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 10:02:30 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 8/26/2008
Posts: 937
Location: Phiadelphia, PA
dnemiller wrote:
I am kind of wondering why anyone actually cares about the rating system. Does it really matter?

I am not saying this to be mean or funny. I just know that I have used bloomilk since day one for squads. I have seen people give Gencon Tourney winning squads a one and then give a build that includes a figure from the insert newest set mini here a ten just because they are excited to see a new mini put to use.

I just have quit using bloomilk to build squads. I love what Aaron has done here but I keep my squads on mini manager for a couple of reasons.

One of them being I just dont care anymore what others think about my squads.

Two I dont think people are very honest on here about rating the squads. I see one person who has posted in this thread had multiple accounts on gamers at one time. That multiple account thing turned into a ugly trading situation too.

Unfortunately I dont think the rating system brings out the best in the community.

Shoebox used to have a comments function on it. IT seemed ok.

But look what are you going to say when someone gives your squad a 1 and then says well that is crap or that sucks!!!!

Dont think it would happen??? Well it did on Shoebox and it would here. Unfortunately I have toned down what I have seen really posted there. I hope you guys come up with a decent solution.


I get ya dean, i always enjoy reading what you have to say, i think your a smart person in the game & you seen smart in life.. This is my issue with it, i dont care to much about ratings as i do with just getting my squad more public to get great input from people like you dean, bill v, imyahuk etc.. & i feel if someone comes along & ruins your squad with giving it a 1 then all the hard work you went into building it & took your time to get right & then this person comes & gives you a 1 for no reason to be funny, then that hard work is thrown out the window.

Basically from my expierence when your squad gets enough ones then it gets lost in the site to where people will never see it again. So the rating system to me is if you can get it in the top 5 spots its an achievment you feel weither people admitt it or not & it gets more exposure to where you get the ideas you wanted & thats why you made the squad. If you look at every squad i built, if someone gives it a 4 - 6 & leaves a comment why, i dont get mad. I encourage them to rate it what they feel because them people who do rate them like that give idea's to you on how to make it better. So thats why i say getting 1 ratings with no comment is stupid because they are basically making your squad become lost. That isnt fair.

So thats why i say these idea's would be cool. Its good for us players who arent as good as say Dean, Johhny B & Bill V because we are still learning & if our squad is lost because of the a hole 1 bandit who just wants to be funny, Then dean etc will never see the squad or anyone who is good with building squads at that matter to give you some advice so you can become a better player.. Thats is.. but Dean whenever you right i always listen, I dont look at you like a god lol how everyone says you act like one. Well i disagree with that, you didnt know me at all & what my brother did to you saying that horrible things i didnt accept from my brother.

So off topic, anyone who may think dean or bill v etc think they are gods they dont. They know there skill in the game & they dont have to sit & write threads up in the forums to help explain the game for us who arent as good yet. I get mad at people when they call these guys names like that & swear they are on a power trip. These guys are in my eyes the founding fathers on the game & whenever they have input to anyone, they dont have to input anyone but they do, dont take it as disrespect. Take it as these guys dont have to do that but would like to see other people get good as well. They are here for us not themselves.
Darth Percocet
Posted: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 10:27:47 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 8/26/2008
Posts: 937
Location: Phiadelphia, PA
PLEASE READ THIS, THIS IS A LIST OF REASONS WHY I MADE THIS POLL, & YOU WILL FIND ALOT OF REASONABLE ANSWERS TO WHY I FEEL THESE 3 IDEAS SHOULD BE PUT INTO ACTION. BUT HEY THATS JUST ME.

Look my main issue was to get some new options added on to the Rating system. I think it is great as is except these 1 raters who dont comment.

Basically it isnt so i can keep squads on the top 5, it isnt mainly so you can get your squad there. It's mainly for these new players or even not to great at building squad players that when they build a squad & it gets rated 1. Then the squad gets lost leaving that squad builder left with no answers for idea's or real input. We build squads to see everyones input & to get these idea's. Then the 1 bandit makes it to where the squad becomes lost & you dont get that input. Hows that fair?

If you make it to where you must comment if you want to rate a squad, then the peson rating the 1 & no commenting will not do it. They dont want to be exposed for this fore they are immature & think its funny.

Then it was brought up that people will leave blank comments when giving a 1. I say have a feature that if you get 1 with a blank comment, you can block that user now because there name will still be on the comment even if blank.

Then it was said well the ratings system will slow down & alot of squads will not be rated. Well then have a Subscribe to user, to where you can subscribe to a list of users to where you are alerted when they build a squad.

The blocking a user system will also stop the fighting & bickering on squads.

Now bill i respect you too but if you give a 1 with no comment, then i would block you if you didnt leave a comment. & if you did leave me a comment on why you 1'ed me. Then i wouldnt because behind that rating you would commit why it was a 1 & im sure you would leave some input & idea's. Thats what squad rating is about. Getting ideas & inputs. If a 1 is being given just because its funny to someone, thats not fair for the less expierenced players looking for input because there squad gets lost in the site now.

& Last, even though the squad building system isnt alll about getting ratings comepletely. It has a high part yo play in it. You build a squad for the input yes, But you get a satisfaction along with it if its rated good. Then you know your getting better a good squad building.

Also on the mutiple accounts under the same cpu, whoever said they should stop letting mutiple accounts sign on one cpu is not right. I have nephews who go on my cpu on there account, I have there friends without cpu's who play mini's go on my cpu under there bloomilk accounts. Just because someone has mutiple accounts signing on there name doest mean they are abusing 10's. Also i dont feel its as bad to get a mutiple account user giving there squad a bunch of 10's rather if they were to give other squads, mutiple 1's. I would never ask my nephews or there friends for there Bloomilk PW's to rate my squads. I may ask them to check my squads & tell me what they think & they might leave me a little better of ratings then the average player. But thats because of im there uncle.

Now i have many squads with more than 40 ratings, because i was fortunate to get them on the top & people were able to see them to rate them & input which i've gained so many great idea's from that. If you get a 1' then people dont get the chance for that fore there squad is now lost. Thats the point of this system i proposed.
Omnus
Posted: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 10:29:30 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 9/16/2008
Posts: 344
What about 2 ratings for squads.

Normal and Anonymous.

Anyone with an account more than 2 weeks old can choose to provide Normal ratings to squads. Any normal rating must include a comment and links to the user who posted it. In the details for the user each player can put in a bit about thier mini's history. Such as how long they have been playing (or the set they started with), how often they play in tournaments, do they generally play casually, and major achievements (large events they won, or how they placed in large events such as Regionals, Gencon, PAX, Origins etc). Could even do it as a quick questionaire.

Then players could search by each rating and then look at the history behind the player who posted comment/suggestion/rating. While players who just want to go through and give quick anon ratings can do so and it doesn't affect the other rating.
seibermaki
Posted: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 10:32:45 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 6/13/2009
Posts: 401
Oh yeah, I mentioned this in the Site help forum, but I was thinking it'd be cool if I could get comments on squads of any rating... I have a couple squads rated 10, and it'd help me as a player to know why people thought they deserved a 10.

I was thinking making commenting mandatory when giving a rating... however, I don't prefer to force people to leave comments... which I know is contradictory lol. Also it'd probably open up a whole other can of worms anyhow..
dnemiller
Posted: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 10:47:03 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 4/2/2008
Posts: 538
Location: GC, Missouri
Darth Perc,

I appreciate your kind words.

The thing is I used to really work hard to help people with their squads. I have never really cared what people thought about my squads quite honestly and have not really worried about what they get rated whether here or on Shoebox. I know how well I play this game and I know my playstyle so I really dont post much about my squads. I used to about 3 years ago on wizards but I found no one would comment or they would say looks good to me. So I just left it alone. At first I honestly thought it was because no one like me on wizards. I had not been on there but for a few months (at least with a screen name) so I just kind of figured well I dont know anyone.

I used to help people a lot on wizards with squad ideas. But after a year or so I notice that some users that no longer play the game would get in fights with folks about squads. They would make the original poster feel stupid by their comments about the squad. After a while the fighting in that forum just drove me off. I mean it just kind of got crazy so I didn't feel like I was being any help to anyone because they were arguing with someone who either did not read the posters original post or just wanted to be an ass. It got so bad I remember one guy flaming this one squad and saying how dumb it was. The guy said the original poster should have used piece A. Well if he had read the first post the OP had said he did not have Piece A.

I really just got out of the habit really of being in the Squad Critique forum. I don't visit there now either.

I think people use the rating system now in the same fashion that poster I just talked about. They seem to use the ratings to be ugly. I mean some squads could be rated a 1 but I just have trouble with that. I mean really if you have 1-10 is 1 really where they are at? I mean a 3 is realistically can happen but I dont know about one unless they are a complete moron (I am not saying that anyone is I am just saying I dont most squads deserve a 1). So I dont know it seems a bit like some people take out their revenge using the rating system. So I would love to see it changed if it would stop that but more over I would just like people to be honest and rate it honestly and give some advice of what the squad needs for you to rate it higher.
Darth Percocet
Posted: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 11:38:25 AM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 8/26/2008
Posts: 937
Location: Phiadelphia, PA
dnemiller wrote:
I mean a 3 is realistically can happen but I dont know about one unless they are a complete moron (I am not saying that anyone is I am just saying I dont most squads deserve a 1). So I dont know it seems a bit like some people take out their revenge using the rating system. So I would love to see it changed if it would stop that but more over I would just like people to be honest and rate it honestly and give some advice of what the squad needs for you to rate it higher.


Very, & I Mean Very Well Put.

See for you Dean you know the game great & for us newer players we are still learning. Me myself, i only been playing for 2 years now & as i understand the game pretty good now to where i can produce half decent squads. Im still always looking for input though & i have no problem getting input on squads nowadays basically because i've met alot of great people on here & i consider them friends now all through trading with them to where im fortunate to have them same people see my squads & rate them & comment. But the 1 Bandit giving 1's to squads for no reason, & i say no reason meaning not giving a comment on why i think is unfair to the other people who dont have squads or there user name noticed as say Bill, Dean, Myself, Huk etc. are noticed.

So thats what made me come up with having people have to leave a comment when rating. Not so much for me, its mainly for them. Also being able to block specific people from viewing your squads i think would stop bickering & fighting on that squads page, or even stop the 1 Bandit mainly because im pretty sure these people do not wanna be known for this.

& then having people seeing a squad they really like, & being to subscribe to that user for when they build a squad you would be alerted i feel is a good idea also. Reason why i proposed these idea's because it seems noone came up with a different alternative yet for this problem. Again it isnt so much for myself, but for these people who dont have that privelage of having people be able to rate & honest feedback there squads because they arent as well known.

I think Shinja did an amazing job with the Squad Builder feature on this site, its just the 1 bandit issue that is the only flaw there is with it which there isnt much you can do about it. So i just thought i would propose this idea. & i understand Shinja basically as the great guy he is lets us use his Site that he created for our pleasure & for free. So it probably would take alot of work & donations to this cause would have to be offered in order for it to take place & thats only if shinja agree's with it. Just thought i would propose these idea's before it came to that if it ever did come to that.

I love the new feature about telling you what user names are signing on the any one cpu. But what i say to people who think its just 1 user trying to get his squads up, that is not the case. Capn ahab mentioned that when he is with his friend he uses his friends cpu who also has an account on here. & i with my nephews & there friends which between all of us there is 5 users & that doesnt include my brother when he visit's my house. So dont be so quick to judge them people if you see mutiple accounts signing in from there cpu, could be something as simple as that.. & again Dean, Thank you once more for posting on here & for your kind words also.

P.S. - To those who do say that these guys think they are gods is so off pitch that its ridiculous. Its because they are the top players that we take shots at them if we dont like something they input. Infact it could be something that we would agree on with them but just because they are the top players we say they Think They Are Gods.. you couldnt be so wrong about that. So i say lets come these guys a break (you know which guys i speak of, the ones we say they think they are gods) & realize how much they have done for this Community & Game.. Thanx all who replied & voiced your opinion & input. Thats what the poll was here for. I doublt the squad builder will be changed & SORRY SHINJA if i caused an uproar lol, it wasnt intended. I just wanted to see everyones opinion, feelings & what to hear there voice on this situation.
Mandalore Da Beast
Posted: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 12:19:57 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 7/6/2009
Posts: 1,632
Location: Desintegrating some Djem So Sucka!
ill take negative feedback on my squad over no feedback, anyday.
Mickey
Posted: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 1:59:08 PM
Rank: Advanced Bloo Milk Member
Groups: Member

Joined: 2/9/2009
Posts: 936
Location: Southern Illinois
It seems from the poll that those that replied do want a change in the system. However, that's alot of work on Shinja and ultimately falls upon him if he wants to put the work into it.
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